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[GreenYes] Re: Plasma in Panama... sounds like a bad movie

At 04:47 PM 9/21/2006 -0400, Keith Ripley wrote:
>The trouble in Latin America and the Caribbean
>(including some of the places I have heard
>plasma tech pitched), as in much of the
>developing countries, there are no tipping
>fees. In fact, there usually are no landfills,
>just dumps, usually open-air, with little to no
>management. So we?d be talking government
>subsidies, usually from governments that can ill
>afford to subsidize basic health care, let alone waste management.
>Furthermore, unless someone is pre-sorting (who?
>And who pays them to? How paid? Under what
>conditions?), then the wastes going from one of
>these dumps (say, for the sake of argument,
>Duquesa in Santo Domingo, one of the places this
>idea was pitched for), WILL have metal (unlike
>glass, not heavily recycled in the DR), old
>automobile batteries, car hulks, end-of-life
>electronics, spent portable batteries,
>infectious medical wastes (even limbs),
>pesticides, you name it, it?s all thrown in the dump (if not in the river).
>What made me suspicious about these pitches is
>that they supposedly solved all problems, at no
>cost to government or the general public, and no
>close environmental supervision necessary. In
>my experience, nothing is free and even cheap
>wonder techs have their trade-offs. It?s just a
>question of discussing the trade-offs fully and
>openly and weighing the balance of costs and
>benefits and deciding priorities. But so far
>the proponents of this tech I have heard speak
>and questioned never seem to remember a
>trade-off to speak of. Makes one stroke his/her
>chin in thought and go ?hmmmm??
>As I said, it may be all it?s purported to
>be. But I still must wonder why, if it is so
>beneficial and so cheap, are most of the
>full-scale projects (beyond pilot and test
>phases) announced in China and developing
>countries like Panama? Why not
>California? Massachusetts? New
>York? Michigan? Germany? The UK? The
>Netherlands? Japan? What?s wrong with this
>picture? What else are we not being told?

Asi es la cosa. Some fragments of these claims
might be possible--which is not to say
desirable--but the overall claims are pure hype. Well stated here by Keith.

Alan Muller

>Sr. Keith Edward Ripley
>Temas Actuales LLC
>telefono: 703-731-7108
>e-mail: keith.ripley@no.address
><>El Equipo Verde
>Autor del libro "Solid Wastes and Recycling
>Policy in Latin America & the Caribbean"
>Noticias ambientales de América Latina y el
>Las leyes/los reglamentos ambientales de todo
>America Latina y el Caribe:
>Perspectivas sobre la evolucion de politica
>sobre el medio ambiente, salud publica y defensa
>del consumidor en America Latina y el Caribe:
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>From: GreenYes@no.address
>[mailto:GreenYes@no.address] On Behalf Of LWheeler45@no.address
>Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:47 PM
>To: vze3gxms@no.address; eric@no.address; GreenYes@no.address
>Subject: [GreenYes] Re: Plasma in Panama... sounds like a bad movie
>Your observations are fairly correct for
>traditional high power plasma. The money comes
>from tipping charges or government subsidy.
>Plasma 4th state of matter is a really
>interesting thing. Using available technology
>since 1950's such as Westinghouse Plasma the
>working area of a torch is about 16 inches MAX .
>You need lots of torches and lots of power to
>break down waste to gas and elements this way.
>About 1/2 of the Syn gas produced is consumed to
>power up the system. No electical power no plasma no work.
>I compare it to Edision the light bulb and DC
>power. Works not well on the large scale.
>Using low volatge with a heatsink as on
>electrical contact totally different outcome.
>Heat of the heatsink sustains the
>decomposition. Each heatsink adds working area
>of 16 in approx 8 heatsinks x 16" all in a box
>5' 6' 3' approx. Really efficient and clean!
>Anyone who puts any metal in a plasma field for
>recycle is at minimum an idiot you get nothing
>out for the trouble. You put recycles with H and
>C compositions such as garbage, manure, ag
>waste, plastics, auto fluff, old carpets, paper,
>cardboard and the like and you get process heat,
>gasses rich in C and H and a mini RE refinery.
>No process I have heard about comes even close
>in energy effciency or minimizes greenhouse
>gases and water use. And it is really cheap too.
>David has the details he can share with you

Alan Muller, Executive Director
Green Delaware
Box 69
Port Penn, DE 19731 USA
fax (302)836-3005

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