RE: RE: [GreenYes] Scientific Breakthrough Liberates Energy Users from Fossil Fuel

["Philip Prete" <PPrete@ci.carrboro.nc.us>]

Please see the following web article from the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory for a discussion on the regenerative fuel cell (uses water to produce hydrogen to produce electricity with production of water as a byproduct to be cycled back to hydrogen production  - albeit requiring an external energy source - solar, wind, etc. - to drive the reaction).

 

http://www.llnl.gov/str/Mitlit.html

 

It seems the only thing lacking is funding for research and development (big surprise).

 

-Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: Heelsrnum1@aol.com [mailto:Heelsrnum1@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 3:57 PM
To: greenyes@grrn.org
Subject: RE: [GreenYes] Scientific Breakthrough Liberates Energy Users from Fossil Fuel

Peter, 
You are right, and you are wrong. There is no perpetual motion machine, so you 
are entirely correct about the law of thermo dynamics (energy is never gained or 
lost, just changed into a different form). HOWEVER... I don't want you to get 
misguided into thinking that fuel cells run on hydrogen which was seperated from 
water through solar or wind (or some other form of clean energy) is not 
possible. In fact, this technology already works. -- If I were a carbon-pusher I 
would try and convince the environmental community that there is no solution to 
creating clean, abundant and entirely sustainable energy for our country. But 
there is. It's all very simple science, if you want to understand it. -- If you 
do nothing else, read THE HYDROGEN ECONOMY by Jeremy Rifkin. It explains the 
technolgy as well as the politics behind it. -- We are at a critical point in 
the history of this country. ! We are being led down the wrong path by a 
government that represents the special interests of a small group of people 
invested into "traditional" energy (traditional - for lack of a better word). 
They will use our kids as cannonfodder to keep holding on to their profits, they 
will continue to poison our planet and threaten our health, and they will tax us 
to build infrastructure so that they can continue to keep us dependent on a 
commodity that they will sell us! And they will fight anything and anyone that 
gets in the way of their profits. You will hear a lot of misinformation about 
hydrogen (as you have been hearing about other issues recently). Solar energy 
and fuel cells have helped us explore the solar system, and have helped us 
travel to the moon and back. You know they will run a house or a car, if they 
can run a spacecraft. It's up to you to get your own information. HYDROGEN 
WORKS! It's the only positive future we can create for ourselves!!! I am no 
longer on green-! yes (too much e-mail), but would be happy to communicate on t! 
his issue with anyone who may be interested. I'm at <mischi@nr.infi.net>. 
Please read the book! I don't agree with the proposition that biomass is clean 
(only renewable, and I'm a purist!), but I go along with 95% of what Jeremy 
Rifkin has to say. Hope this makes you curious! READ, people! Mischi 
  

original message

Subj: RE: [GreenYes] Scientific Breakthrough 
Liberates Energy Users from Fossil Fuel Dependence 
Date: 12/14/02 
5:13:36 PM Eastern Standard Time 
From: SPENDELOW.Peter@deq.state.or.us 
To: greenyes@grrn.org 
Sent 
from the Internet (Details) 

This press release that was posted on 
E-WIRE describes what it says is a self-contained machine that somehow breaks 
water into hydrogen and oxygen using less energy than is produced when you burn 
hydrogen and oxygen to make water.  Anyone who has completed basic high 
school science courses should know that this is impossible.  If it were 
possible, you would have a machine that without any net inputs can produce 
energy - a "perpetual motion" machine.  It would burn hydrogen and oxygen 
to produce lots of energy, take part of that energy to separate the hydrogen and 
oxygen again, burn them again to produce lots more energy, and so on. The second 
law of thermodynamics says that such a machine cannot exist.

Thus, it 
seems you should be skeptical of press releases you read on E-WIRE.

Peter 
Spendelow
Oregon Department of Environmental Quality

-----Original 
Message-----

Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:00:05 -0600
From: Stephan 
Pollard <sp@cast.uark.edu>
Subject: [GreenYes] Scientific Breakthrough 
Liberates Energy Users from Fossil Fuel  Dependence

Though folks 
might be interested in this press release found on 
E-WIRE.

http://www.ewire-news.com/wires/C757AA38-AA19-45AE-8E0A3F2838562317.htm

- 
--
Stephan

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