Title: [GreenYes] Re: 9 new messages in 6 topics - digest
has anyone compared the costs/benefits of digesting horse manure vs
incineration of this material? Thanks. Neil
On Nov 14, 2007, at 3:58 AM, GreenYes group wrote:
>
> GreenYes
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes?hl=en
>
> GreenYes@no.address
>
> Today's topics:
>
> * [horse shit incineration][GreenYes] The special beauty of the
> FTBOA-Global
> Green project horse manure [horse shit incineration] - 4 messages,
> 4 authors
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes/browse_thread/thread/
> 74cc72dda3aabe4f?hl=en
> * The FTBOA-Global Green project horse manure [horse manure
> incineration] - 1
> messages, 1 author
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes/browse_thread/thread/
> c385ea9bc2978d62?hl=en
> * http://www.clemson.edu/psapublishing/Pages/ADVS/LL53.pdf - 1
> messages, 1
> author
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes/browse_thread/thread/
> df9c5ed210469588?hl=en
> * term excess Phosphorous discussion by Dr Ron E Ney EPA ret. - 1
> messages, 1
> author
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes/browse_thread/thread/
> 84f7d33a59c4f50b?hl=en
> * need your help... - 1 messages, 1 author
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes/browse_thread/thread/
> 21f036b4e26c9e5c?hl=en
> * [GreenYes] Garbage is NOT RenewableEnergy - 1 messages, 1 author
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes/browse_thread/thread/
> 9586d35026c684ed?hl=en
>
> ======================================================================
> ========
> TOPIC: [horse shit incineration][GreenYes] The special beauty of
> the FTBOA-
> Global Green project horse manure [horse shit incineration]
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes/browse_thread/thread/
> 74cc72dda3aabe4f?hl=en
> ======================================================================
> ========
>
> == 1 of 4 ==
> Date: Tues, Nov 13 2007 7:23 am
> From: "Bailey. Ryan"
>
>
> Manure has become a sticky subject. Regulators and environmental
> groups
> have taken considerable interest in protecting surface and groundwater
> quality from the runoff impacts of manure from dairies.
>
>
>
> In California's central valley, the Water Board has new
> requirements for
> dairies that will be phased in over the next five years. There
> will be
> a manifest system for any manure sent offsite. If manure is reused
> onsite (applied to agricultural fields), an elaborate calculation
> has to
> be made to determine if it is being applied in agronomic proportions
> (more nitrogen/nutrients not applied to lands than will be taken up by
> the specific crop).
>
>
>
> http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/rwqcb5/water_issues/dairies/index.html
>
>
>
> Ryan Bailey
>
> Sacramento County
>
> Business Environmental Resource Center
>
> baileyr@no.address
>
> www.sacberc.org
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address] On
> Behalf Of Alan Muller
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 6:05 PM
> To: GreenYes@no.address
> Subject: [GreenYes] Re: [horse shit incineration][GreenYes] The
> special
> beauty of the FTBOA-Global Green project horse manure [horse shit
> incineration]
>
>
>
> Oh, my, what a crappy idea....
>
> As far as I know, every sustainable agricultural system in human
> history
> has relied very significantly on returning manure to the fields/
> gardens
> as nutrients....
>
> (Well, yes, some cultures have used dung for fuel for domestic
> cooking.
> Tibet? Plains Indians?)
>
> Larry? How about some modern incarnation of "buffalo chips?" Why use
> pet coal to make "charcoal" briquettes? We could convert all those
> gas
> grill users to freeze-dried, shrink-wrapped, easy-lighting equine
> deposits.....
>
> It's all a matter of selling a lifestyle...
>
> Alan
>
> At 07:53 PM 11/11/2007 -0500, LWheeler45@no.address wrote:
>
>
>
> Published Nov. 11, 2007 7:30 am
> Ocala Star Banner
>
>
>
>
> Every rose has its thorn
>
>
>
>
> Nothing personifies Marion County more than its horse farms. The sight
> of grazing mares and foals against a backdrop of rolling pastures and
> moss-draped oaks creates a picture-postcard portrait of our community
> that is a chamber of commerce dream. It's a living dream that also
> happens to create thousands of jobs and pump hundreds of millions of
> dollars into the local economy each year, not to mention the visitors
> and sportsmen it attracts from the world over.
>
> But, as the old proverb goes, every rose has its thorn.
>
> The thorn, in this case, is mounds upon mounds of horse manure
> produced
> by the 50,000-plus horses that make Marion County the horse capital of
> the world. The county's 700-800 horse farms, in fact, produce an
> estimated 400,000 tons a year of the stinking stuff, about one-
> fourth of
> which the farms currently can't dispose of through existing
> methods. And
> that 100,000-ton surplus is more than an unsightly, odorous
> nuisance. It
> is an environmental hazard that pollutes our groundwater supply.
>
> For the past decade the horse industry hereabouts has been on notice
> that it needed to do something about disposing of the excess manure
> in a
> environmentally responsible way. The pressure to finally do that is
> now
> intense as the county appears ready to pass a stringent Springs
> Protection Act that will forbid stockpiling horse waste; enactment of
> the ordinance could come as early as late 2008. After much discussion
> and at least one failed, $2 million foray a few years back to address
> the manure quandary, the Florida Thoroughbred Breeders' and Owners'
> Association may have found a workable solution. It is a solution that
> proponents believe will be not only environmentally beneficial, but
> economically beneficial as well. All the better.
>
> FTBOA announced earlier this month it has formed a partnership with
> Georgia-based Global Green Solutions, known as Florida Greensteam
> Equine
> Energy, to build an incineration plant that would burn horse
> "muck," the
> mix of manure, urine and stable bedding the farms produce. During the
> super-hot burning process, steam would be produced that, in turn,
> would
> generate electricity. The Florida Greensteam partners then hope to
> sell
> that electricity to area power companies like Ocala Electric
> Utility and
> Florida Progress Energy.
>
> FTBOA Executive Vice President Dick Hancock said the $20 million plant
> is expected to produce 10-12 megawatts of electricity, based on the
> 100,000 tons of excess horse waste. That, he said, is about enough to
> meet the power needs of a city the size of Williston. Hancock added
> that
> its developers believe the proposed plant could ultimately handle
> twice
> as much waste as is now planned, and the partners might approach local
> governments about taking on wood waste such as construction and yard
> debris. That could be a sorely needed relief valve for the county, in
> particular, as it struggles to make room at its fast-filling Baseline
> Landfill.
>
> The special beauty of the FTBOA-Global Green project, at this
> point, is
> that it is not asking for on any governmental funding to move forward.
> Although the partnership is applying for some state and federal
> alternative energy grants, it is looking to revenues from the sale of
> its electrical generation to pay off the two parties' investments.
>
> As long as Marion County remains the horse capital of the world -
> and we
> pray that it does forever - there will be mountains of horse manure to
> contend with. Until now, it has been an accepted, if unpleasant,
> inconvenience and pollutant. But with protecting our diminishing
> groundwater supply from continuing pollution and unavoidable
> imperative,
> something had to give.
>
> It is refreshing the FTBOA has not reneged on its long-standing pledge
> to find an acceptable, environmentally responsible solution to its
> organic pollution problem. At the same time, we understand this is
> a new
> and largely untested technology that may take time to get the kinks
> out
> of completely. Unfortunately, time isn't something the horse
> industry or
> our groundwater supply, and particularly our precious springs, have in
> any semblance of abundance.
>
> Every rose has its thorn, but if the FTBOA plan works, maybe our rose
> will smell just a little bit sweeter and our water will be little bit
> cleaner.
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> See what's new at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?
> NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170>
> and Make AOL Your Homepage
> <http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001169> .
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ______
> COUNTY OF SACRAMENTO EMAIL DISCLAIMER:
> This email and any attachments thereto may contain private,
> confidential, and
> privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
> review,
> copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto)
> by other
> than the County of Sacramento or the intended recipient is strictly
> prohibited.
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> immediately
> and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email
> and any
> attachments thereto.
> ______________________________________________________________________
> _______
>
>
>
>
> == 2 of 4 ==
> Date: Tues, Nov 13 2007 8:03 am
> From: Naomi Yaeger
>
>
> Please take away the S*** word...we don't need it...MANURE words fine
>
> "Bailey. Ryan" <baileyr@no.address> wrote: Manure
> has become a sticky subject. Regulators and environmental groups
> have taken considerable interest in protecting surface and
> groundwater quality from the runoff impacts of manure from dairies.
>
> In California's central valley, the Water Board has new
> requirements for dairies that will be phased in over the next five
> years. There will be a manifest system for any manure sent
> offsite. If manure is reused onsite (applied to agricultural
> fields), an elaborate calculation has to be made to determine if it
> is being applied in agronomic proportions (more nitrogen/nutrients
> not applied to lands than will be taken up by the specific crop).
>
> http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/rwqcb5/water_issues/dairies/index.html
>
> Ryan Bailey
> Sacramento County
> Business Environmental Resource Center
> baileyr@no.address
> www.sacberc.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> From: GreenYes@no.address
> [mailto:GreenYes@no.address] On Behalf Of Alan Muller
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 6:05 PM
> To: GreenYes@no.address
> Subject: [GreenYes] Re: [horse shit incineration][GreenYes] The
> special beauty of the FTBOA-Global Green project horse manure
> [horse shit incineration]
>
>
> Oh, my, what a crappy idea....
>
> As far as I know, every sustainable agricultural system in human
> history has relied very significantly on returning manure to the
> fields/gardens as nutrients....
>
> (Well, yes, some cultures have used dung for fuel for domestic
> cooking. Tibet? Plains Indians?)
>
> Larry? How about some modern incarnation of "buffalo chips?" Why
> use pet coal to make "charcoal" briquettes? We could convert all
> those gas grill users to freeze-dried, shrink-wrapped, easy-
> lighting equine deposits.....
>
> It's all a matter of selling a lifestyle...
>
> Alan
>
> At 07:53 PM 11/11/2007 -0500, LWheeler45@no.address wrote:
>
>
> Published Nov. 11, 2007 7:30 am
> Ocala Star Banner
>
>
> Every rose has its thorn
>
> Nothing personifies Marion County more than its horse farms. The
> sight of grazing mares and foals against a backdrop of rolling
> pastures and moss-draped oaks creates a picture-postcard portrait
> of our community that is a chamber of commerce dream. It's a living
> dream that also happens to create thousands of jobs and pump
> hundreds of millions of dollars into the local economy each year,
> not to mention the visitors and sportsmen it attracts from the
> world over.
>
> But, as the old proverb goes, every rose has its thorn.
>
> The thorn, in this case, is mounds upon mounds of horse manure
> produced by the 50,000-plus horses that make Marion County the
> horse capital of the world. The county's 700-800 horse farms, in
> fact, produce an estimated 400,000 tons a year of the stinking
> stuff, about one-fourth of which the farms currently can't dispose
> of through existing methods. And that 100,000-ton surplus is more
> than an unsightly, odorous nuisance. It is an environmental hazard
> that pollutes our groundwater supply.
>
> For the past decade the horse industry hereabouts has been on
> notice that it needed to do something about disposing of the excess
> manure in a environmentally responsible way. The pressure to
> finally do that is now intense as the county appears ready to pass
> a stringent Springs Protection Act that will forbid stockpiling
> horse waste; enactment of the ordinance could come as early as late
> 2008. After much discussion and at least one failed, $2 million
> foray a few years back to address the manure quandary, the Florida
> Thoroughbred Breeders' and Owners' Association may have found a
> workable solution. It is a solution that proponents believe will be
> not only environmentally beneficial, but economically beneficial as
> well. All the better.
>
> FTBOA announced earlier this month it has formed a partnership
> with Georgia-based Global Green Solutions, known as Florida
> Greensteam Equine Energy, to build an incineration plant that would
> burn horse "muck," the mix of manure, urine and stable bedding the
> farms produce. During the super-hot burning process, steam would be
> produced that, in turn, would generate electricity. The Florida
> Greensteam partners then hope to sell that electricity to area
> power companies like Ocala Electric Utility and Florida Progress
> Energy.
>
> FTBOA Executive Vice President Dick Hancock said the $20 million
> plant is expected to produce 10-12 megawatts of electricity, based
> on the 100,000 tons of excess horse waste. That, he said, is about
> enough to meet the power needs of a city the size of Williston.
> Hancock added that its developers believe the proposed plant could
> ultimately handle twice as much waste as is now planned, and the
> partners might approach local governments about taking on wood
> waste such as construction and yard debris. That could be a sorely
> needed relief valve for the county, in particular, as it struggles
> to make room at its fast-filling Baseline Landfill.
>
> The special beauty of the FTBOA-Global Green project, at this
> point, is that it is not asking for on any governmental funding to
> move forward. Although the partnership is applying for some state
> and federal alternative energy grants, it is looking to revenues
> from the sale of its electrical generation to pay off the two
> parties' investments.
>
> As long as Marion County remains the horse capital of the world -
> and we pray that it does forever - there will be mountains of horse
> manure to contend with. Until now, it has been an accepted, if
> unpleasant, inconvenience and pollutant. But with protecting our
> diminishing groundwater supply from continuing pollution and
> unavoidable imperative, something had to give.
>
> It is refreshing the FTBOA has not reneged on its long-standing
> pledge to find an acceptable, environmentally responsible solution
> to its organic pollution problem. At the same time, we understand
> this is a new and largely untested technology that may take time to
> get the kinks out of completely. Unfortunately, time isn't
> something the horse industry or our groundwater supply, and
> particularly our precious springs, have in any semblance of abundance.
>
> Every rose has its thorn, but if the FTBOA plan works, maybe our
> rose will smell just a little bit sweeter and our water will be
> little bit cleaner.
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ______
> COUNTY OF SACRAMENTO EMAIL DISCLAIMER:
> This email and any attachments thereto may contain private,
> confidential, and
> privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
> review,
> copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto)
> by other
> than the County of Sacramento or the intended recipient is strictly
> prohibited.
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> immediately
> and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email
> and any
> attachments thereto.
> ______________________________________________________________________
> _______
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "There are two kinds of people in the world,
> those who think they can and those who think
> they can't. And both are right." Henry Ford
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> == 3 of 4 ==
> Date: Tues, Nov 13 2007 1:01 pm
> From: "Tom Rhodes"
>
>
>
>
> re: horse shit incineration....
>
> Pardon me, but should we not be using a more, shall we say,
> "politically
> correct" word rather than the term, "horse shit"?
> I suggest that we use the term "equine shit". It just sounds nicer.
> Anyway, I think the use of manure as an alternative energy source is a
> great idea. I heard about a farmer in North Carolina that covered a
> spiral length of black flexable water pipe with a pile of manure and
> piped water through it to creat a continual supply of hot water for
> his
> home.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address] On
> Behalf Of Bailey. Ryan
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:24 AM
> To: GreenYes@no.address
> Subject: [GreenYes] Re: [horse shit incineration][GreenYes] The
> special
> beauty of the FTBOA-Global Green project horse manure [horse shit
> incineration]
>
>
>
> Manure has become a sticky subject. Regulators and environmental
> groups
> have taken considerable interest in protecting surface and groundwater
> quality from the runoff impacts of manure from dairies.
>
>
>
> In California's central valley, the Water Board has new
> requirements for
> dairies that will be phased in over the next five years. There
> will be
> a manifest system for any manure sent offsite. If manure is reused
> onsite (applied to agricultural fields), an elaborate calculation
> has to
> be made to determine if it is being applied in agronomic proportions
> (more nitrogen/nutrients not applied to lands than will be taken up by
> the specific crop).
>
>
>
> http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/rwqcb5/water_issues/dairies/index.html
>
>
>
> Ryan Bailey
>
> Sacramento County
>
> Business Environmental Resource Center
>
> baileyr@no.address
>
> www.sacberc.org
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address] On
> Behalf Of Alan Muller
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 6:05 PM
> To: GreenYes@no.address
> Subject: [GreenYes] Re: [horse shit incineration][GreenYes] The
> special
> beauty of the FTBOA-Global Green project horse manure [horse shit
> incineration]
>
>
>
> Oh, my, what a crappy idea....
>
> As far as I know, every sustainable agricultural system in human
> history
> has relied very significantly on returning manure to the fields/
> gardens
> as nutrients....
>
> (Well, yes, some cultures have used dung for fuel for domestic
> cooking.
> Tibet? Plains Indians?)
>
> Larry? How about some modern incarnation of "buffalo chips?" Why use
> pet coal to make "charcoal" briquettes? We could convert all those
> gas
> grill users to freeze-dried, shrink-wrapped, easy-lighting equine
> deposits.....
>
> It's all a matter of selling a lifestyle...
>
> Alan
>
> At 07:53 PM 11/11/2007 -0500, LWheeler45@no.address wrote:
>
>
>
> Published Nov. 11, 2007 7:30 am
> Ocala Star Banner
>
>
>
>
> Every rose has its thorn
>
>
>
>
> Nothing personifies Marion County more than its horse farms. The sight
> of grazing mares and foals against a backdrop of rolling pastures and
> moss-draped oaks creates a picture-postcard portrait of our community
> that is a chamber of commerce dream. It's a living dream that also
> happens to create thousands of jobs and pump hundreds of millions of
> dollars into the local economy each year, not to mention the visitors
> and sportsmen it attracts from the world over.
>
> But, as the old proverb goes, every rose has its thorn.
>
> The thorn, in this case, is mounds upon mounds of horse manure
> produced
> by the 50,000-plus horses that make Marion County the horse capital of
> the world. The county's 700-800 horse farms, in fact, produce an
> estimated 400,000 tons a year of the stinking stuff, about one-
> fourth of
> which the farms currently can't dispose of through existing
> methods. And
> that 100,000-ton surplus is more than an unsightly, odorous
> nuisance. It
> is an environmental hazard that pollutes our groundwater supply.
>
> For the past decade the horse industry hereabouts has been on notice
> that it needed to do something about disposing of the excess manure
> in a
> environmentally responsible way. The pressure to finally do that is
> now
> intense as the county appears ready to pass a stringent Springs
> Protection Act that will forbid stockpiling horse waste; enactment of
> the ordinance could come as early as late 2008. After much discussion
> and at least one failed, $2 million foray a few years back to address
> the manure quandary, the Florida Thoroughbred Breeders' and Owners'
> Association may have found a workable solution. It is a solution that
> proponents believe will be not only environmentally beneficial, but
> economically beneficial as well. All the better.
>
> FTBOA announced earlier this month it has formed a partnership with
> Georgia-based Global Green Solutions, known as Florida Greensteam
> Equine
> Energy, to build an incineration plant that would burn horse
> "muck," the
> mix of manure, urine and stable bedding the farms produce. During the
> super-hot burning process, steam would be produced that, in turn,
> would
> generate electricity. The Florida Greensteam partners then hope to
> sell
> that electricity to area power companies like Ocala Electric
> Utility and
> Florida Progress Energy.
>
> FTBOA Executive Vice President Dick Hancock said the $20 million plant
> is expected to produce 10-12 megawatts of electricity, based on the
> 100,000 tons of excess horse waste. That, he said, is about enough to
> meet the power needs of a city the size of Williston. Hancock added
> that
> its developers believe the proposed plant could ultimately handle
> twice
> as much waste as is now planned, and the partners might approach local
> governments about taking on wood waste such as construction and yard
> debris. That could be a sorely needed relief valve for the county, in
> particular, as it struggles to make room at its fast-filling Baseline
> Landfill.
>
> The special beauty of the FTBOA-Global Green project, at this
> point, is
> that it is not asking for on any governmental funding to move forward.
> Although the partnership is applying for some state and federal
> alternative energy grants, it is looking to revenues from the sale of
> its electrical generation to pay off the two parties' investments.
>
> As long as Marion County remains the horse capital of the world -
> and we
> pray that it does forever - there will be mountains of horse manure to
> contend with. Until now, it has been an accepted, if unpleasant,
> inconvenience and pollutant. But with protecting our diminishing
> groundwater supply from continuing pollution and unavoidable
> imperative,
> something had to give.
>
> It is refreshing the FTBOA has not reneged on its long-standing pledge
> to find an acceptable, environmentally responsible solution to its
> organic pollution problem. At the same time, we understand this is
> a new
> and largely untested technology that may take time to get the kinks
> out
> of completely. Unfortunately, time isn't something the horse
> industry or
> our groundwater supply, and particularly our precious springs, have in
> any semblance of abundance.
>
> Every rose has its thorn, but if the FTBOA plan works, maybe our rose
> will smell just a little bit sweeter and our water will be little bit
> cleaner.
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> See what's new at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?
> NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170>
> and Make AOL Your Homepage
> <http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001169> .
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> ____
> COUNTY OF SACRAMENTO EMAIL DISCLAIMER:
> This email and any attachments thereto may contain private,
> confidential, and
> privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
> review,
> copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by
> other
> than the County of Sacramento or the intended recipient is strictly
> prohibited.
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> immediately
> and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email
> and any
> attachments thereto.
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> _____
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> == 4 of 4 ==
> Date: Tues, Nov 13 2007 1:17 pm
> From: "Wayne Turner"
>
>
> Tom Rhodes wrote (and eloquently, I might add):
>
> re: horse shit incineration....
>
> Pardon me, but should we not be using a more, shall we say,
> "politically correct" word rather than the term, "horse shit"?
> I suggest that we use the term "equine shit". It just sounds nicer.
>
> *******************************************************************
>
> Thank you Tom for talking us down from the ledge and bringing some
> much needed levity to this otherwise terse listserv. We can only
> hope that the offended sensibilities may still find some humor in
> this little sidebar.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ======================================================================
> ========
> TOPIC: The FTBOA-Global Green project horse manure [horse manure
> incineration]
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes/browse_thread/thread/
> c385ea9bc2978d62?hl=en
> ======================================================================
> ========
>
> == 1 of 1 ==
> Date: Tues, Nov 13 2007 7:39 am
> From: "Reindl, John"
>
>
> Besides the nitrogen issue, we have a problem in my county with
> excess levels of phosphorus in the soil from the manure of some
> 125,000 head of dairy cattle. The plants can't use it all, but
> benefit from the nitrogen and organic material from the manure. The
> excess phosphorus washes off the land into our streams and lakes
> and causes excessive growth of algae and lake weeds. We are known
> as the Four Lakes region due to four large lakes around our main
> city, and are trying to improve their water quality. For the last 2
> + years, my main task has been to try to come up with a better
> solution to this problem and it is a challenging issue.
>
> It's a bit off the main focus of this list, but if you or someone
> else you know wants to see what we are looking at, our web page is
> at http://www.danewaters.com/management/ManureTaskForce.aspx
>
> We also invite any comments on our work or other potential
> solutions. So far, we have not come up with things that look
> particularly promising.
>
> John Reindl, Recycling Manager
> Dane County, WI
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address]
> On Behalf Of Bailey. Ryan
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:24 AM
> To: GreenYes@no.address
> Subject: [GreenYes] Re: [horse shit incineration][GreenYes] The
> special beauty of the FTBOA-Global Green project horse manure
> [horse shit incineration]
>
>
>
> Manure has become a sticky subject. Regulators and environmental
> groups have taken considerable interest in protecting surface and
> groundwater quality from the runoff impacts of manure from dairies.
>
>
>
> In California's central valley, the Water Board has new
> requirements for dairies that will be phased in over the next five
> years. There will be a manifest system for any manure sent
> offsite. If manure is reused onsite (applied to agricultural
> fields), an elaborate calculation has to be made to determine if it
> is being applied in agronomic proportions (more nitrogen/nutrients
> not applied to lands than will be taken up by the specific crop).
>
>
>
> http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/rwqcb5/water_issues/dairies/index.html
>
>
>
> Ryan Bailey
>
> Sacramento County
>
> Business Environmental Resource Center
>
> baileyr@no.address
>
> www.sacberc.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ======================================================================
> ========
> TOPIC: http://www.clemson.edu/psapublishing/Pages/ADVS/LL53.pdf
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes/browse_thread/thread/
> df9c5ed210469588?hl=en
> ======================================================================
> ========
>
> == 1 of 1 ==
> Date: Tues, Nov 13 2007 3:06 pm
> From: LWheeler45@no.address
>
>
> (http://www.clemson.edu/psapublishing/Pages/ADVS/LL53.pdf)
>
> Shame Shame Shame such lack of green action on this issue.
>
> Leonard
>
>
> In a message dated 11/13/2007 4:39:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> WAYNET@no.address writes:
>
> Tom Rhodes wrote (and eloquently, I might add):
>
> re: horse shit incineration....
>
> Pardon me, but should we not be using a more, shall we say,
> "politically
> correct" word rather than the term, "horse shit"?
> I suggest that we use the term "equine shit". It just sounds nicer.
>
> *******************************************************************
>
> Thank you Tom for talking us down from the ledge and bringing some
> much
> needed levity to this otherwise terse listserv. We can only hope
> that the
> offended sensibilities may still find some humor in this little
> sidebar.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at http://
> www.aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ======================================================================
> ========
> TOPIC: term excess Phosphorous discussion by Dr Ron E Ney EPA ret.
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes/browse_thread/thread/
> 84f7d33a59c4f50b?hl=en
> ======================================================================
> ========
>
> == 1 of 1 ==
> Date: Tues, Nov 13 2007 4:11 pm
> From: LWheeler45@no.address
>
>
>
> To: Dean R. Kirby Barrick, _kbarrick@no.address
> (mailto:kbarrick@no.address)
>
> From: Ronald E. Ney, Jr., PhD
>
> Subject: P and N
>
> Hello Dean Barrick, I am having trouble with scientific terms or
> maybe
> non-scientific terms that appear to be totally incorrect and was
> hoping you could
> give me some answers. I saw the terms used in a Total Maximum
> Daily Load
> (TMDL) draft. I will present what I deem as incorrect science and
> my questions
> will follow. I sent similar comments to the TMDL group and to
> others and they
> would not respond.
> I have a problem with "Orange County Parks Phosphorus (Measured as
> Phosphate)".
> 1. How can phosphorus be measure as a phosphate?
> 2. To measure the element phosphorus, as a phosphate,
> wouldn't you
> being synthesizing a new chemical compound in order to measure it?
> 3. If it were possible to measure phosphorus, as a phosphate,
> wouldn't
> you be measuring all phosphate compounds including phosphate
> pesticides,
> phosphate fertilizer, etc.?
> I also have a problem with the term "(measured as water soluble
> organic
> nitrogen)". I was under the scientific impression that organic
> chemicals
> contained carbon. I do not think fertilizers contain organic
> nitrogen compounds but
> inorganic compounds. This is another reason why that I don't like
> the terms
> water-soluble organic nitrogen or water insoluble organic nitrogen.
> Do you think they really mean an organic compound containing the
> carbon atom
> or inorganic compounds which contain no carbon atoms?
> "Orange County Parks, including Trimble, Roosevelt, Nichols,
> Magnolia Park,
> Chapin Station, Winter Garden Station, and County Line Station.
> OCEPD and
> Parks Department agreed to reduce use of phosphorus fertilizers
> for each new
> lawn care and maintenance contract issued on all park facilities.
> Agreement
> includes use of reduced phosphorus (measured as phosphate) between
> 0 - 5 % on
> turf areas (athletic fields, reacreational and waterfront park).
> Higher
> percentages of phosphorus are allowable in localized areas (i.e.
> flower beds, trees
> and shrubs) needing greater amounts on an as needed basis."
> 1.How does one reduce elemental P when it is not in fertilizers?
> 2. Isn't it true that there is a phosphorus compound present in
> fertilizers
> and not elemental P?
> How is it possible to reduced phosphorus (measured as phosphate)
> when it is
> chemically impossible?
> Isn't it true that one can measure total phosphorus (TP) from a
> phosphate
> but not the way it is expressed in 3 above?
> How can one reduce the percentages of phosphorus when a phosphate
> is present
> in fertilizer?
> Do you think they mean 0 to 0.5% instead of 0 to 5%?
> Regards,
>
> Dr. Ron Ney
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
> In a message dated 11/13/2007 6:38:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> Reindl@no.address writes:
>
> Besides the nitrogen issue, we have a problem in my county with
> excess
> levels of phosphorus in the soil from the manure of some 125,000
> head of dairy
> cattle. The plants can't use it all, but benefit from the nitrogen
> and organic
> material from the manure. The excess phosphorus washes off the
> land into our
> streams and lakes and causes excessive growth of algae and lake
> weeds. We are
> known as the Four Lakes region due to four large lakes around our
> main city,
> and are trying to improve their water quality. For the last 2+
> years, my
> main task has been to try to come up with a better solution to
> this problem and
> it is a challenging issue.
>
> It's a bit off the main focus of this list, but if you or someone
> else you
> know wants to see what we are looking at, our web page is at
> _http://www.danewaters.com/management/ManureTaskForce.aspx_
> (http://www.danewaters.com/management/ManureTaskForce.aspx)
>
> We also invite any comments on our work or other potential
> solutions. So
> far, we have not come up with things that look particularly
> promising.
>
> John Reindl, Recycling Manager
> Dane County, WI
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address]
> On Behalf
> Of Bailey. Ryan
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:24 AM
> To: GreenYes@no.address
> Subject: [GreenYes] Re: [horse shit incineration][GreenYes] The
> special
> beauty of the FTBOA-Global Green project horse manure [horse shit
> incineration]
>
>
>
> Manure has become a sticky subject. Regulators and environmental
> groups
> have taken considerable interest in protecting surface and
> groundwater quality
> from the runoff impacts of manure from dairies.
> In California's central valley, the Water Board has new
> requirements for
> dairies that will be phased in over the next five years. There
> will be a
> manifest system for any manure sent offsite. If manure is reused
> onsite (applied
> to agricultural fields), an elaborate calculation has to be made
> to determine
> if it is being applied in agronomic proportions (more nitrogen/
> nutrients not
> applied to lands than will be taken up by the specific crop).
> _http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/rwqcb5/water_issues/dairies/index.html_
> (http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/rwqcb5/water_issues/dairies/index.html)
>
> Ryan Bailey
> Sacramento County
> Business Environmental Resource Center
> baileyr@no.address
> _www.sacberc.org_ (http://www.sacberc.org/)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at http://
> www.aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ======================================================================
> ========
> TOPIC: need your help...
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes/browse_thread/thread/
> 21f036b4e26c9e5c?hl=en
> ======================================================================
> ========
>
> == 1 of 1 ==
> Date: Tues, Nov 13 2007 10:40 pm
> From: "Pat Kiel"
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I need to buy some stuff at
> http://boxedartmembers.com/phpshop/payment-method.php (100 $) but
> my credit
> card has been failed when I've tried to checkout. I've purchased by my
> credit card before, but I don't know why it's declined now. Could
> you please
> purchase it for me? I'm in hurry and it's very important for me,
> I'll pay
> your cash as soon as I receive your reply. this website offers some
> pre-designed templates for websites and it offers a promotion for 1
> week, it
> will send you a user name and password for accessing the download
> page. The
> only thing I need is that user name and password, so please send
> them by
> email to me after purchase. it would be kind of you,
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Regards
>
>
>
>
>
> ======================================================================
> ========
> TOPIC: [GreenYes] Garbage is NOT RenewableEnergy
> http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes/browse_thread/thread/
> 9586d35026c684ed?hl=en
> ======================================================================
> ========
>
> == 1 of 1 ==
> Date: Tues, Nov 13 2007 10:44 pm
> From: "Linda Christopher"
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> This is not an accurate characterization of the campaign and GRRN's
> position.
>
> We do not say methane capture is bad. On the contrary, a
> centerpiece of our campaign is that it should be mandatory. Visit
> http://www.grrn.org/landfill/notrenewableenergy/mandatecapture.html
>
> Our position is that methane from garbage is not "renewable" and
> therefore it should not receive the same financial incentives given
> to wind and solar power. http://www.grrn.org/landfill/
> notrenewableenergy/index.html This is not a controversial position.
>
> The greatest barrier to achieving Zero Waste is not technological.
> No, not at all. That's the easy part. If industry can make a
> Blackberry with more processing power than the computers that sent
> the Apollo astronauts to the moon, then we can and will design
> waste out of the system.
>
> Then what's our challenge? The greatest barrier to Zero Waste is
> the institutional, cultural, and economic incentives embedded in
> the fabric of our society that encourage and reward wasting. Those
> must be reversed and should not be underestimated.
>
> Therefore, the costs of pollution remediation and managing the
> downstream impacts of garbage generation should not come out of the
> pot of money set aside to develop renewable sources of wind and
> solar energy. It is laughable to produce garbage, bury it, capture
> the methane and then claim this activity is a "carbon offset" that
> makes it OK to drive your car around.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Linda Christopher
> Executive Director
> GrassRoots Recycling Network
> www.grrn.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Levy, Tania
> To: OrganicsOutOfLandfills@no.address ;
> crra_members@no.address ; p2@no.address ; p2tech@no.address
> lakes.net ; sustainablebusiness@no.address ; ZERI-
> US@no.address ; ZeroWasteCommunities@no.address ;
> ZWBusiness@no.address ; zwia@no.address
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:31 AM
> Subject: RE: [OrganicsOutOfLandfills] [GreenYes] Garbage is NOT
> RenewableEnergy
>
>
>
> Our battle was to not give carbon credits to landfills to bury
> "sequester" organics.
> But using the methane from what's already there - why not?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OrganicsOutOfLandfills@no.address
> [mailto:OrganicsOutOfLandfills@no.address]On Behalf Of Mark
> Bowers
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 3:59 PM
> To: crra_members@no.address;
> OrganicsOutOfLandfills@no.address; p2@no.address; p2tech@no.address
> lakes.net; sustainablebusiness@no.address; ZERI-
> US@no.address; ZeroWasteCommunities@no.address;
> ZWBusiness@no.address; zwia@no.address
> Subject: Re: [OrganicsOutOfLandfills] [GreenYes] Garbage is NOT
> RenewableEnergy
>
>
> Folks, I think you are throwing the baby out with the bath
> water, here.
>
> By trying to impose an overly idealized notion of how waste is
> created and handled you are proposing to financially punish
> environmentally beneficial projects that convert methane to usable
> forms of energy.
>
> Our Power Generation Facility takes methane captured from a
> landfill that closed 14 years ago, combines it with digester gas
> methane from our sewage treatment process and makes electricity.
> If not produced this way, that electricity would have to come from
> a power plant fired by natural gas or nuclear fission. And you're
> saying that what we are doing is bad and that we shouldn't get a
> small financial boost from selling the associated RECs?
>
> Just like "stuff" happens, methane happens. I think that in
> taking such a broad-based position on RECs you risk damaging
> worthwhile energy capture projects and risk alienating current
> allies--like me!
>
> Stop--Think
>
> Mark Bowers
> Solid Waste Program Manager
> City of Sunnyvale, California
>
>
> On 11/12/2007 at 3:13 PM, Gary Liss <gary@no.address> wrote:
>
> Apologies for Cross-postings
>
>
>
> From: "Eric Lombardi" <eric@no.address>
> Subject: [GreenYes] please spread the word ... don't buy
> garbage-based REC's!!
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:38:06 -0700
>
> GRRN has launched a new campaign about buying "renewable
> energy credits" (REC's) that are NOT from garbage-based energy,
> such as landfill gas or incineration. The campaign, "Garbage is
> NOT Renewable Energy", is described briefly in the press release
> below, which I would encourage everyone to forward to anyone you
> know that is buying REC's. Also, send folks to the GRRN website
> where there is a LOT more good technical information on this topic.
> ( http://www.grrn.org/landfill/notrenewableenergy/index.html)
>
> Grazie,
>
> Eric
>
> For Immediate Release-- Friday, September 14, 2007
>
> National Movement to Stop Buying Energy from Garbage:
> Zero Waste Advocates say renewable energy credits may be
> supporting the destruction of natural resources and the polluting
> practices of burning and burying garbage.
>
> The GrassRoots Recycling Network (GRRN) warns that well-
> meaning public and business leaders working to offset their carbon
> emissions may be inadvertently spending money on renewable energy
> credits (RECs) that support the destruction of natural resources
> and the polluting practices of burning and burying garbage.
> Landfill and incineration industries have lobbied to have the
> greenhouse gas emissions from their facilities considered "green
> energy," worthy of tax credits similar to the ones given to solar
> and wind energy projects. In fact, "garbage-to-energy" is now being
> legally classified in numerous states as a "renewable" energy
> source. Eric Lombardi, GRRN Board President says "This is in direct
> opposition to the goal of the Zero Waste Movement -- to eliminate
> waste, not enshrine it as a renewable resource."
>
> GRRN Board Member Carly Weir says "Giving tax credits and
> subsidies to the garbage industry competes against wind, solar and
> recycling projects, and creates a financial reward for producing
> garbage and destroying natural resources. In the battle against
> climate change, we need to act decisively against waste and
> greenhouse gas emissions by eliminating, not just reducing these
> sources, and giving priority to clean, carbon-free energy."
>
> GRRN asserts that ultimately reducing waste is still the best
> decision for the environment and the economy. Communities and
> institutions would be better served by committing to zero waste
> goals and keeping compostable organics out of the landfill in order
> to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Additionally consumers and
> institutions can purchase RECs from carbon offset companies that
> provide waste-free energy.
>
> GRRN has a list of waste-free carbon offset and renewable
> energy providers along with action steps for college and
> institutions at www.grrn.org.
>
> For more information visit www.grrn.org for facts and
> supporting documentation.
> For quotes or information contact:
>
> Eric Lombardi, GRRN Board President (303) 444-6634
> Carly Weir, GRRN Board Secretary (970) 668-5703
> Linda Christopher, GRRN Executive Director (707) 321-7883
>
>
> Gary Liss
> 916-652-7850
> Fax: 916-652-0485
> www.garyliss.com
>
>
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