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[greenyes] RE: Millenialists - Political Armageddon


"Millenialists - Political Armageddon"

I am intrigued by this topic and I volunteer to do some more research. I'll report back to
the group on what I discover. I think it is important to know what we might be up against
and just how big of a movement or how widespread this philosophy might be. As a matter of
fact, I will try to find someone with these beliefs and interview them. This should be
fun!

Dan Weisenbach
http://www.recycledproducts.com/
____________________________________________________________
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:21:53 -0800, Steve Bloom wrote:
> I just wanted to point out that my initial comment on this subject
> (whence all the heat seems to have been generated) was specific to
> Millenialists per se, who are most definitely a subset of
> Christians. A response to my post was worded as if I had said
> something about all Christians; I did not. I do believe, and will
> state again, that Millennialism is an ideology that fundamentally
> conflicts with environmentalism. The many environmentalist
> Christians and Christian groups of which I'm aware are broadly
> speaking not Millennialists, although I'm sure the occasional
> exception exists. The Catholic Kenyan Nobel prize winner mentioned
> is highly unlikely to be a Millennialist since Catholic theology
> rejects it. If anybody on this list is aware of some vast
> undercurrent of environmentalist Millennialists, I'd love to hear
> about it. -- Steve Bloom
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alan Muller [mailto:amuller@no.address]
>> At 07:56 AM 11/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>>> As long as words like "cranks" are used to describe a massive
>>> portion of the electorate who say they care about moral issues
>>> more than economic or environmental ones, there will be no
>>> progress.
>>> There is, in fact, a burgeoning movement within Christian
>>> evangelicals (see www.sojo.net) who care deeply about
>>> environmental justice and who mounted a "too little, too late"
>>> campaign to counter the single issue agenda that has once again
>>> swept conservative "cranks" into power.
>>> The concepts of "creation care" and environmental stewardship
>>> are gaining ground with evangelicals and Catholics - and can be
>>> the basis for shifting momentum away from the Armageddon crowd.
>>> These concepts have to be perceived as important a moral issue
>>> as stem cell research.
>>> That will not happen, however, if current antagonistic
>>> attitudes prevail.
>>> Jenifer Lugar
>>>
>> Dear Jenifer:
>> I am in no mood for debating anything this morning, but I suppose
>> I own a response
>> First, my reference to "cranks" was mainly a characterization of
>> my own responses. But I apologize if you were offended.
>> I know there is an "environmental stewardship" line of thought
>> within various christian groups. I have very occasionally been
>> invited to talk at a church by people with these interests. This
>> line of thought, however much we like it, doesn't seem to
>> resonate well with the fundamental tenets of most flavors of
>> christianity--which seem to me to be based on aggression and
>> claims of superiority over other ways of doing and being. So it
>> should be encouraged but I don't know how much is realistically
>> to be expected, at least in the short run. I hope you are right
>> and it is "burgeoning."
>> As I read the Grist piece it struck me that many people view
>> "environmentalism" as a sort of perverted religion of its own.
>> And one can claim that our concerns over global warming--for
>> example--deserve to be rejected a just another End Time concern.
>> We are the cranks.
>> A couple of times a week I get emails from people I know and
>> like, and who are concerned about cancer and pollution,
>> circulating info about how "environmentalists" are trying to
>> depopulate the planet of humans, turn the US government over to
>> the United Nations, and suchlike.
>> The bible-waving pols are not concerned with accommodation, or
>> understanding, they are concerned about victory (over "us") Last
>> night they won a very important battle, no?
>> Alan
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alan Muller [mailto:amuller@no.address]
>>> At 03:54 PM 11/1/2004 -0600, Wolbert, Brad wrote:
>>>> One source for the direction this thread has gone is probably
>>>> the following article on the Grist webzine, which appeared
>>>> last week:
>>>> http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/10/27/scherer-
>>>> christian/
>>>> as well as the recent, widely discussed article on the role
>>>> of religion in Bush's presidency, which appeared in the New
>>>> York Times Magazine. Having read both articles, I hesitate
>>>> to dismiss the concern as blithely as Ken does.
>>>> Brad
>>> I feel I have awakened into a nightmare. That I have been
>>> ignoring this stuff for years as the rantings of a few cranks,
>>> while it fact these beliefs have worked their way into the
>>> mainstream of American politics.
>>> It's really terrifying, because one cannot counter superstition
>>> with reasoned arguments....these people do not believe in an
>>> orderly
>>> relationship between cause and effect, or in the possibility
>>> that other views may have equal validity to their own.
>>> Alan Muller






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