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RE: [greenyes] Political Armageddon


I just wanted to point out that my initial comment on this subject (whence all the heat
seems to have been generated) was specific to Millenialists per se, who are most
definitely a subset of Christians. A response to my post was worded as if I had said
something about all Christians; I did not. I do believe, and will state again, that
Millennialism is an ideology that fundamentally conflicts with environmentalism. The many
environmentalist Christians and Christian groups of which I'm aware are broadly speaking
not Millennialists, although I'm sure the occasional exception exists. The Catholic
Kenyan Nobel prize winner mentioned is highly unlikely to be a Millennialist since
Catholic theology rejects it. If anybody on this list is aware of some vast undercurrent
of environmentalist Millennialists, I'd love to hear about it.
-- Steve Bloom


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Muller [mailto:amuller@no.address]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 7:01 AM
> To: Jenifer Lugar; greenyes@no.address
> Subject: Re: [greenyes] Political Armageddon
>
>
> At 07:56 AM 11/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> >As long as words like "cranks" are used to describe a massive portion of the
> >electorate who say they care about moral issues more than economic or
> >environmental ones, there will be no progress.
> >
> >There is, in fact, a burgeoning movement within Christian evangelicals (see
> >www.sojo.net) who care deeply about environmental justice and who mounted a
> >"too little, too late" campaign to counter the single issue agenda that has
> >once again swept conservative "cranks" into power.
> >
> >The concepts of "creation care" and environmental stewardship are gaining
> >ground with evangelicals and Catholics - and can be the basis for shifting
> >momentum away from the Armageddon crowd. These concepts have to be perceived
> >as important a moral issue as stem cell research.
> >
> >That will not happen, however, if current antagonistic attitudes prevail.
> >
> >Jenifer Lugar
>
> Dear Jenifer:
>
> I am in no mood for debating anything this morning, but I suppose I own a
> response.
>
> First, my reference to "cranks" was mainly a characterization of my own
> responses. But I apologize if you were offended.
>
> I know there is an "environmental stewardship" line of thought within
> various christian groups. I have very occasionally been invited to talk at
> a church by people with these interests. This line of thought, however
> much we like it, doesn't seem to resonate well with the fundamental tenets
> of most flavors of christianity--which seem to me to be based on aggression
> and claims of superiority over other ways of doing and being. So it should
> be encouraged but I don't know how much is realistically to be expected, at
> least in the short run. I hope you are right and it is "burgeoning."
>
> As I read the Grist piece it struck me that many people view
> "environmentalism" as a sort of perverted religion of its own. And one can
> claim that our concerns over global warming--for example--deserve to be
> rejected a just another End Time concern. We are the cranks.
>
> A couple of times a week I get emails from people I know and like, and who
> are concerned about cancer and pollution, circulating info about how
> "environmentalists" are trying to depopulate the planet of humans, turn the
> US government over to the United Nations, and suchlike.
>
> The bible-waving pols are not concerned with accommodation, or
> understanding, they are concerned about victory (over "us") Last night
> they won a very important battle, no?
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Alan Muller [mailto:amuller@no.address]
> >Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 6:15 PM
> >To: greenyes@no.address
> >Subject: RE: [greenyes] RE: PEER Press Release
> >
> >
> >At 03:54 PM 11/1/2004 -0600, Wolbert, Brad wrote:
> > >One source for the direction this thread has gone is probably the
> > >following article on the Grist webzine, which appeared last week:
> > >
> > >http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/10/27/scherer-christian/
> > >
> > >as well as the recent, widely discussed article on the role of religion in
> > >Bush's presidency, which appeared in the New York Times Magazine. Having
> > >read both articles, I hesitate to dismiss the concern as blithely as Ken
> >does.
> > >
> > >Brad
> >
> >I feel I have awakened into a nightmare. That I have been ignoring this
> >stuff for years as the rantings of a few cranks, while it fact these
> >beliefs have worked their way into the mainstream of American politics.
> >
> >It's really terrifying, because one cannot counter superstition with
> >reasoned arguments....these people do not believe in an orderly
> >relationship between cause and effect, or in the possibility that other
> >views may have equal validity to their own.
> >
> >Alan Muller
> >
> >Alan Muller, Executive Director
> >Green Delaware
> >Box 69
> >Port Penn, DE 19731 USA
> >(302)834-3466
> >fax (302)836-3005
> >greendel@no.address
> >www.greendel.org
>
> "Innumerable suns exist; innumerable 'earths' revolve around these suns
> in a manner similar to the way the seven planets [sic] revolve around our
> sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
>
> GIORDANO BRUNO, scientist/philosopher
> -burnt at the stake in 1600 for his"astronomical heresy"
>





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