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RE: [GreenYes] Producer Responsibility & Consumer Costs
Dear John,

I was going down my 'received' emails and I happened to see the
"Producer Responsibility & Consumer Costs" subject line and
decided to read your email.  Then I read all of your emails and,
for the most part, liked what I read.  I don't agree with all of
your points, but I like your questions and appreciate your
dialogue on the issue of producer responsibility. Hope you don't
mind that I copy the listserve, to add my 2 cents to the dialogue.

Regarding your comment "....consumers are taxpayers....Consumer/
taxpayers are currently paying the cost of disposal/recycling/reuse
--through our garbage bills and through the taxes we pay that go to
local government to fund local waste infrastructures.  I am not
attacking or demeaning Producer Responsibility.  We simply need
to realize that the consumer will be paying the costs of
disposal/recycling/reuse one way or another.  I'd like to know
which way is best and which way is cheapest...."


RE:  "...there's no denying that the cost be passed on to you, me,
and all the other taxpayer/consumers in the U.S."
Yes, the cost will undoubtedly be passed on to consumers, but I
would argue that while the consumers who pay more are also taxpayers,
the taxpayers that don't consume product "X" won't pay more.  In a
producer responsibility scheme where product "X" is actually taken
back to the point of purchase or to another return location (such
as with deposit cans and bottles in a bottle bill state), most of
those products/containers don't end up in the waste stream and the
costs to taxpayers fo disposal/recycling/litter cleanup are reduced.

Re:  "The only consumers who are not taxpayers in the U.S. are small
infants."
I would argue that in addition to infants, all children and young
adults who area supported by their parents, also DO NOT pay taxes--
at least not the sort of state or local taxes that fund
disposal/recycling/litter cleanup and other costs related to
postconsumer products and packaging. Perhaps they would consume less
if they had to pay more for those products and packaging.

Regards,

Pat Franklin

PS
((I've added you to our media list.   Will you send me a copy of
Refuse News or a url to your website?))

****************************************
Patricia Franklin
Executive Director
Container Recycling Institute
1911 N. Fort Myer Drive, Ste. 702
Arlington, VA 22209

TEL:   703.276.9800
FAX:   703.276.9587
EMAIL: pfranklin@container-recycling.org

http://www.container-recycling.org
http://www.bottlebill.info
****************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-greenyes@grrn.org [mailto:owner-greenyes@grrn.org]On Behalf
Of RJayW2@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:39 PM
To: Greenyes@grrn.org
Subject: [GreenYes] Producer Responsibility & Consumer Costs


"H" made some excellent points and some not so excellent points regarding
Producer Responsibility & Consumer Costs.  "H" states:  "Joun is
demonstrating a habit of thought that proves the degree to which we have
become a 'consumer society'.  John, the taxpayer is footing the bill ...not
the consumer."  John's habit of thought is called current reality.  We are a
consumer society.  "H" is a consumer.  We all are.  And let's be clear.  The
only consumers who are not taxpayers in the U.S. are small infants.

That said, "H" is correct in stating that currently, the cost of
disposal/recycling/reuse is not reflected in the price of many (99.9%) of
consumer goods we purchase.  (Remember now, consumers are taxpayers.
Taxpayers as a group are not living in mud huts on the edge of town.)
Consumer/taxpayers are currently paying the cost of
disposal/recycling/reuse--through our garbage bills and through the taxes we
pay that go to local government to fund local waste infrastructures.

It's a given that consumer/taxpayers (remember one in the same) are
subsidizing producers of the products we buy.  What John (that's me) wishes
to know once again is:  What is the difference between subsizing
disposal/recycling/reuse through our tax dollars OR paying for
disposal/recycling/reuse up front when we purchase the product?  Will it
cost
us less to pay for these services at point of purchase?

I'd be really cool to think that producers are not going to pass on the cost
of assuming the costs of the disposal/recycling/reuse of their products on
to
the consumer.  This won't be the case.  "H" is correct in wanting the
producer to assume these costs like a warranty and the producer will if made
to legislatively.  However, there's no denying that the cost be passed on to
you, me, and all the other taxpayer/consumers in the U.S.

I am not attacking or demeaning Producer Responsibility.  We simply need to
realize that the consumer will be paying the costs of
disposal/recycling/reuse one way or another.  I'd like to know which way is
best and which way is cheapest.

John Waddell
KJWB Publications Inc.
Refuse News
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