Today's Topics:
anti-recycling questions (2 msgs)
Conversion factors: lumber to greenhouse gas emissions
export of our recyclables
Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk
Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk Bottle
Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk BottleIssue -Reply (2 msgs)
FW:
FW: Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk Bottle Issue
Fwd: Enviro Values (2 msgs)
Tri-County Recycling Efforts
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Date: Tue, 21 Oct 97 22:53:13 PST
From: roger.diedrich@sfsierra.sierraclub.org
Subject: anti-recycling questions
Howdy folks,
I'm a journalist, and some of you might remember me from the
Atlanta conference, as the guy scribbling a lot of notes and recording
sessions. As I told people then, I was writing a story for a local
publication, which finally got published this summer. You can check it out
on my web site, listed below in my sig.
Now I'm doing another story for In These Times (a national
progressive magazine), focused on the politics of the anti-recycling
faction, whom I also call the Recycling Minimizers. I'd like your
perspectives on the following questions. Feel free to email me off-list or
publicly. Please keep answers somewhat brief, as I can only include so
much. If I'd like to use your answers, I'll email you first to get
permission. TIA
1. Who are the anti-recyclers or recycling minimizers? (i.e. plastics
industry, beverage industry, etc.)
Yes, and yes. Also, waste industry (landfill and incinerator) plus perhaps
most pernicious of all, hundreds of local public works directors, who get
their information from the likes of the above. Some have real problems,
others simply are shortsighted.
2. Are they against recycling, and/or do
they try to limit the effectiveness of recycling?
Mostly the latter, at least they feel the need to appear to support some
recycling.
3. What are their strategies, and how effective are they?
Constantly putting out half-truths, so it is harder to refute than lies.
they get published in all the Journals. William Rathje, plastics apologist,
is in interactive TV in the Smithsonian's display on garbage. Fairly
effective.
4. Is there a
trend towards privatization of waste and recycling, and is that part of their
strategy? Is it hurting recycling?
Perhaps there is a trend. It hurts recycling because private decisions are
more likely to be pure economic decisions, wheras, public sector decisions
have some chance of incorporating non-economic values.
5. Keep America Beautiful: is a friend of
the recycling movement, a front group that keeps recycling from being too
effective, both or neither? The latter, definately.
6. Are think tanks part of the anti-recycling
strategy, and if so, how do they influence public policy?
This is not obvious to me except in a very general sense. You go from Cato,
that is practically anarchist market oriented, to RFF, who keeps pushing risk
assessments for everything. They rarely help.
7. Anything else
you would say about the issue of the politics of the anti-recyclers?
Thanks.
_________________________________________________________________________
Mark Fearer
Freelance Writer
Boulder, CO.
www.ecentral.com/members/writer
"Writing is easy. All you do is stare at a blank piece of paper until drops
of blood form on your forehead." -- Gene Fowler (1890-1960)
_________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 07:56:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Boston CWA 486 <bostoncwa@cleanwater.org>
Subject: anti-recycling questions
see below for selected personal responses/opinions -k
At 10:53 PM 10/21/97 PST, you wrote:
>Howdy folks,
> I'm a journalist, and some of you might remember me from the
>Atlanta conference, as the guy scribbling a lot of notes and recording
>sessions. As I told people then, I was writing a story for a local
>publication, which finally got published this summer. You can check it out
>on my web site, listed below in my sig.
> Now I'm doing another story for In These Times (a national
>progressive magazine), focused on the politics of the anti-recycling
>faction, whom I also call the Recycling Minimizers. I'd like your
>perspectives on the following questions. Feel free to email me off-list or
>publicly. Please keep answers somewhat brief, as I can only include so
>much. If I'd like to use your answers, I'll email you first to get
>permission. TIA
>
>1. Who are the anti-recyclers or recycling minimizers? (i.e. plastics
>industry, beverage industry, etc.)
Don't forget the basic general human tendency towards laziness and greed.
> 3. What are their strategies, and how effective are they?
> Constantly putting out half-truths, so it is harder to refute than lies.
>they get published in all the Journals. William Rathje, plastics apologist,
>is in interactive TV in the Smithsonian's display on garbage. Fairly
>effective.
Maybe i'm naive, but i find the material in Use Less Stuff an intriguing
different perspective from mine, sincere in its own way, and my opinions of
policy tradeoffs/reality etc have been shifted.
> 4. Is there a
>trend towards privatization of waste and recycling, and is that part of their
>strategy? Is it hurting recycling?
>Perhaps there is a trend. It hurts recycling because private decisions are
>more likely to be pure economic decisions, wheras, public sector decisions
>have some chance of incorporating non-economic values.
U left out a special weird trick of the current situation. The legal game.
If a landfill etc is privatized, then it deals in a business "commodity" and
states cannot control/prevent waste import. As long as the
ownership/operation is fully public as a necessary (unfortunate) local
service, much control is legally feasible. I don't know why this is not
getting more attention.
The essential dillema is:
We want to get rid of landfills and incinerators. It is almost possible,
eventually -- but will take a long time practically. In the meantime, we
"need" disposal facilities. Big privatized facilities do this efficiently.
So efficiently that once permitted the urge to be rid of them is diminished.
>>_________________________________________________________________________
>Mark Fearer
>Freelance Writer
>Boulder, CO.
>www.ecentral.com/members/writer
>"Writing is easy. All you do is stare at a blank piece of paper until drops
>of blood form on your forehead." -- Gene Fowler (1890-1960)
>_________________________________________________________________________>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 14:57:10 -0700
From: Ann Schneider <aschneid@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Conversion factors: lumber to greenhouse gas emissions
Hi:
I am compiling data from the deconstruction of several buildings at
the former Fort Ord Army Base and looking for any conversion factors
that show the savings in greenhouse gas emissions from the reuse of
lumber. By reuse of lumber, I mean the reuse of lumber as lumber, not
as mulch or compost. Although a small portion of our wood scrap will
head for the chipper to become mulch/compost, so that data would also
be helpful.
We are assuming that the greenhouse gas reduction may vary tree
species by species. The bulk of our wood is Douglas Fir, possibly or
probably first growth, although later additions are definitely not
first growth. We also have some pine (haven't been able to identify
the exact species, assuming Pinus Ponderosa), some redwood (Sequoia
Sempervirens) and some cedar (still working to ID the cedar species.)
Our data is in linear feet, board feet and square feet by dimension by
species.
Thanks in advance for any leads on this type of information.
Ann Schneider
Univ. of Calif. Santa Cruz
Business Environmental Assistance Center (BEAC)
Fort Ord Deconstruction Pilot Project
aschneid@cats.ucsc.edu
fax 408 748-7388
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 18:39:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: "William P. McGowan" <6500kai@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu>
Subject: export of our recyclables
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Rosalind Risser Yasui wrote:
> Does anyone know of recent reports about the export of recyclables to
> foreign markets? How does this affect the prices U.S. manufacturers pay
> for non-virgin feedstock?
>
>
Rosalind,
A good place to start is published by Resource Information Services, Inc.
of Medford, Mass--they have a monthly service that publishes what is
happening
in commodity markets both here and domestic. This is a failry pricey
publication, but I have found that the information to be very accurate.
As far as the impact that international trade has on the price of "our"
recyclables, I find that when we are not exporting, prices tend to be
lower, like now. The east asian currency crises has precluded many asian
mills from buying, so that the domsetic mills have the market to themselves.
The number for the folks at RISI is 617-271-0030.
Bill McGowan
Rincon Recycling
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:36:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Boston CWA 486 <bostoncwa@cleanwater.org>
Subject: Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk
My impression is the main claim is Vit C sensitivity to light, rather than
Vit A. -k
=====================
Keith c/o bostoncwa@igc.org
total recycling - zero waste
W.Rox/Boston, MA USA
=====================
At 08:53 AM 10/22/97 -0600, George Dreckmann wrote:
>I think this vitamin A stuff is a smokescreen. Even if this remains a
>problem, we have been drinking milk out of this containers for what
>seems like a century, so why switch now. Also, if it wasn't a marketing
>ploy, why would they be talking about using different color bottles for
>different types of milk.
> ...........
>George Dreckmann
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 08:53:52 -0600
From: George Dreckmann <GDRECKMANN@ci.madison.wi.us>
Subject: Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk Bottle
I think this vitamin A stuff is a smokescreen. Even if this remains a
problem, we have been drinking milk out of this containers for what
seems like a century, so why switch now. Also, if it wasn't a marketing
ploy, why would they be talking about using different color bottles for
different types of milk.
I really think if the plastic industry is going to keep on pulling this
stuff that
we outhg to just stop cleaning up after them and take their crap off our
trucks and see if the public will still accept plastic containers if they arn't
recycled.
George Dreckmann
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 22:26:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jango@aol.com
Subject: Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk BottleIssue -Reply
From: David Biddle
In PA we have been hearing the UV degredation issue for a number of years and
it may or may not be true. I can't see how anyone in their right mind though
would want to sell milk in colored containers for marketing purposes...so,
I'm sort of inclined to take these guys at their word. In fact, in PA our
dairy companies have worked closely with recycling coordinators to try to get
them to understand this issue and while people haven't always been able to
agree, at least they are trying.
Also, the dairy industry is at the forefront of waste reduction and reuse in
milk programs in our schools.
As to cleaning up after them, I personally think recyclers are wasting their
time on milk jug recycling. Most people I know still don't have cost
effective curbside programs, don't have real commercial recycling programs
and aren't dealing well with C&D.
I would pay a premium to have milk delivered to my house in reusable plastic
and/or glass bottles the way my friends get there's in a suburb nearby. HDPE
recycling is important, and the industry is being slimey by shifting gears
with no good communication, but the only answer is for market alternatives to
drive their decisions, not government mandates. Right now there doesn't seem
to be a market alternative that works. Recyclers should be looking at market
initiatives that fund reuse oriented industries like milk delivery companies.
David Biddle
Philadelphia, PA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 09:13:40 -0500
From: "Cloutier, Chris" <chris.cloutier@moea.state.mn.us>
Subject: Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk BottleIssue -Reply
I don't drink milk and think we would all be better off w/o the stuff
(sorry George, I know that is heresy in the Dairy State).
The trend in MN over the last several years has been to either move to
an LDPE pouch (mostly in schools but has achieved some retail
penetration) or refillable, HDPE jugs (natural). But, the fiber
containers are still prevelant AND distinguish b/t types of milk by
using different colors. So, the idea that a colored jug wouldn't work
seems to fly in the face of current and succesful, product
differentiation strategies.
A St. Paul non-profit achieved excellent response by asking St. Paul
citiizens to talk to their grocers about carrying the returnable,
refillable milk jugs. The dairy that uses them indicated that campaign
made a difference in where their milk was sold and how much was sold.
Mary T'Kach at Nec@orbis.net would be able to provide more detail.
>----------
>From: Jango@aol.com[SMTP:Jango@aol.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 1997 9:26PM
>To: GDRECKMANN@ci.madison.wi.us; anderson@msn.fullfeed.com;
>greenyes@ucsd.edu
>Subject: Re: Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk
>BottleIssue -Reply
>
>From: David Biddle
>
>In PA we have been hearing the UV degredation issue for a number of years and
>it may or may not be true. I can't see how anyone in their right mind though
>would want to sell milk in colored containers for marketing purposes...so,
>I'm sort of inclined to take these guys at their word. In fact, in PA our
>dairy companies have worked closely with recycling coordinators to try to get
>them to understand this issue and while people haven't always been able to
>agree, at least they are trying.
>Also, the dairy industry is at the forefront of waste reduction and reuse in
>milk programs in our schools.
>
>As to cleaning up after them, I personally think recyclers are wasting their
>time on milk jug recycling. Most people I know still don't have cost
>effective curbside programs, don't have real commercial recycling programs
>and aren't dealing well with C&D.
>
>I would pay a premium to have milk delivered to my house in reusable plastic
>and/or glass bottles the way my friends get there's in a suburb nearby. HDPE
>recycling is important, and the industry is being slimey by shifting gears
>with no good communication, but the only answer is for market alternatives to
>drive their decisions, not government mandates. Right now there doesn't seem
>to be a market alternative that works. Recyclers should be looking at market
>initiatives that fund reuse oriented industries like milk delivery companies.
>
>David Biddle
>Philadelphia, PA
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:34:32 -0400
From: Robert Anderson <sanitation@columbiasc.net>
Subject: FW:
Unsubscribe
----------
From: ROBERT ANDERSON
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 3:39 PM
To: 'greenyes@ucsd.edu'
unsubscribe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:59:07 -0700
From: Gregg Foster <inc@northcoast.com>
Subject: FW: Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk Bottle Issue
From: RecycleWorlds [SMTP:anderson@msn.fullfeed.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 1997 10:49 AM
To: 'Gregg Foster'
Subject: RE: Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk Bottle =
Issue
Boy you hit the nail on the head with that onion comment. I've decided =
to assign one of the people on our staff to research the issue and will =
post the results. In the meantime, let me know if you find out anything =
more.
Peter Anderson
(608) 231-1100
----------
From: Gregg Foster[SMTP:inc@northcoast.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 6:00 PM
To: 'RecycleWorlds'
Subject: RE: Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk Bottle =
Issue
Actually, sunlight is probably not the issue, but with the open =
refrigerators in the supermarkets, I suspect that there is exposure from =
fluorescent lights. =20
This appears to be an onion issue, simple looking at first, but when you =
begin to peel it...
-----Original Message-----
From: RecycleWorlds [SMTP:anderson@msn.fullfeed.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 2:59 PM
To: 'GreenYes'
Subject: Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk Bottle =
Issue
In response to my alert about white pigmented milk bottles, and the =
potential threat that poses to plastic recycling, Gregg Foster asked:
"I was asking if the change to colored HDPE was in response to =3D the =
criticism that I have heard that the light getting into milk =3D =
supposedly destroys vitamin A? Is that even true?"
When I called Bruce Fortin at EnviroPlastic this morning, he said that =
this is the claim that Hood Dairy is making to defend their use of white =
bottles.
I have a difficult time imagining a milk bottle in this day and age =
being exposed to sunlight, but does anyone have any hard facts on:
1) What kind of Vitamin A degradation occurs in the life of the typical =
milk bottle due to UV light; and
2) If there is any serious potential, couldn't a simple UV protection =
additive be blended in the HDPE resin (if it's not already) which would =
not pigment the bottle?
Peter Anderson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 08:16:22 -0400
From: "Bill Sheehan" <bill_sheehan@mindspring.com>
Subject: Fwd: Enviro Values
G R E E N W I R E
POLL: Surveys Show Enviro Values Deeply Rooted
Two out of every three Americans consider themselves
environmentalists,
and "public concern is rising," according to a recent poll by
the
McLean, VA-based research firm Wirthlin Worldwide.
Sixty-eight percent of those responding to the survey "place[d]
themselves squarely in the pro-environmental camp," while only
4% said
they were "unsympathetic" to environmental concerns.
Seventy-six percent
of respondents said environmental improvements should be made
regardless
of cost, but only one in four said economic growth should be
sacrificed
to protect the environment. Some 70% said there can be a
balance between
economic growth and the environment.
A DEEPLY ROOTED CONCERN
The pollsters report that Americans' concern about the
environment
appears to be "rooted in an increasing awareness that such
issues affect
their personal health and well-being." For example, 37% said
current
environmental problems have harmed them personally, and 42%
believe air
quality in their community has grown worse. Seventy-nine
percent said
they thought environmental problems would get significantly
worse during
their lifetimes, and 76% said they are more concerned about the
environment now than five years ago.
Almost half said there was too little environmental regulation;
only 21%
said there was too much.
Some 41% agreed that environmental groups sometimes exaggerate
environmental threats to garner public support, while 56%
"believe the
threats are as serious as claimed." Only 37% said the media
exaggerates
environmental threats (Jerry Spangler, Salt Lake Deseret News,
10/9).
BUSINESS SCORES WELL FOR COMMUNITY EFFORTS
With one exception -- the computer industry -- more people
associate
industries with causing environmental problems than with
solving them.
But asked how good a job businesses and governments are doing
at
protecting the environment, respondents give above average
grades" --
ranging between 5.6 and 6.4 on a 1- 10 scale -- with
"businesses in your
community" scoring highest (Wirthlin Report, 8-9/97 issue).
Wirthlin Worldwide, headed by Pres. Reagan's former pollster
Richard
Wirthlin, surveyed 1,040 adults from 8/22-31. The poll has a
margin of
error of +/-3% (Spangler, Salt Lake Deseret News, 10/9).
THEY WOULD LOVE GREENWIRE
Meanwhile, 59% of those responding to another poll developed by
the
Newseum in Arlington, VA, the Freedom Forum Media Studies
Center in New
York and the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research at the U.
of
Connecticut said they were "very" or "extremely" interested in
news
coverage of environmental issues. Only local news and crime
rated higher
in interest. But when asked about the quality of media coverage
on the
environment, only 44% rated it as "good" or "excellent." The
poll of
1,500 adults was conducted from 1/10-26 and has a margin of
error of
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 14:31:30 -0700
From: Ann Schneider <aschneid@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Fwd: Enviro Values
Hi Bill:
Thanks for sending out the poll information. The tail end of the
message was cut off, e.g., anything after % error in the poll. I'd
like to use the poll in a class I teach on Quality of Life for a local
Chamber of Commerce Leadership program. Would you by any chance have
the entire document?
Many thanks,
Ann Schneider
Univ. of Calif. Santa Cruz
Business Environmental Assis. Center
aschneid@cats.ucsc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:50:21 PDT
From: "Joe Kracht" <jnekracht@hotmail.com>
Subject: Tri-County Recycling Efforts
My name is Joe Kracht, I'm interning at Congressman Sam Farr's Monterey
office, and am trying to compile a list of any and all, big or small,
recycling efforts underway in Santa Cruz, Monterey, and San Benito
Counties.
The Congressman has requested the list to assist him in his efforts to
build support for increased recycling in the D.C. area. If you have any
POCs, know of any unusual programs that might escape my general search,
or have any good ideas, I'd love to hear about them.
Joe Kracht
jnekracht@aol.com
or
Congressman Sam Farr
attn: Joe Kracht
380 Alvarado Street
Monterey, CA 93940
(408) 649-3555
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 12:45:32 -0400
From: "Quinn R. Davidson" <QDavidsonNAPCOR@compuserve.com>
Subject: unsubscribe
unsubscribe
------------------------------
End of GreenYes Digest V97 #255
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