GreenYes Digest V97 #256

GreenYes Mailing List and Newsgroup (greenyes@ucsd.edu)
Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:06:50 -0500


GreenYes Digest Sat, 25 Oct 97 Volume 97 : Issue 256

Today's Topics:
"UNSUBSCRIBE"
Colored Plastic Milk Ju (5 msgs)
Colored Plastic Milk Jugs (3 msgs)
Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk BottleIssue
Junk Mail Press Release
Mail your Un-Recyclables to:
Prices for PCR
PVC Market Share
subscribe richard@edf.org
unsubscribe
vitamin A (fwd)

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:01:32 -0400
From: Francisco Colon <colon@informinc.org>
Subject: "UNSUBSCRIBE"

To whom this may concern:

I used the instructions on the bottom of your message to unsubscribe, and I
recieved an error message. Please let me know what I need to do to get
<inform@igc.apc.org> off your mailing list.

Thank you.
Francisco Col=F3n
Communications Associate
INFORM, Inc.
120 Wall Street, 16th Floor
New York, NY 10005-4001
212-361-2400, ext. 242, Fax: 2412
colon@informinc.org
www.informinc.org

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:05:44 -0700
From: Paul Tapley <Paul.Tapley@sonoma.edu>
Subject: Colored Plastic Milk Ju

Reply to: RE>>Colored Plastic Milk Jugs

Rebecca,

Thank you. You raised the point that I have been thinking all along while
reading about the milk jugs: How far could the light penetrate into the
product, and what percent of the product could possibly be affected? Keeping
in mind that the product should only be affected while the store is open
(lights off at night), and only when the product is on the front of the shelf
near the lights, and then product should only be under these conditions a
matter of hours (or less) before it is sold. I'm no chemist, but it seems to
me that it would be hard to measure any losses this small.

If this situation was REALLY going to be studied, I would like to see ALL of
the affected industries considerded in the equation. Where does the color come
from? What by-products are produced when it is extracted or processed? Is any
of the process toxic? Are new jobs being created? Are any jobs being lost?
Recyclable? I could go on, but you get my point, there are many concequences
to every action, and as many of these as possible should be considered before
we undertake any activity of questionable benifits.

I drink milk, and will continue to do so out of refillable clear glass
bottles. I choose to do so, not because I want less vitamins in my milk, but
beacuse it comes from an "organic" dairy, and I also prefer to reuse
containers when possible.

Milk came in clear glass for many decades, and personally I have not heard of
any vitamin A, D, or any other kind of deficencies in this country (at least
not from well lit milk). I have heard of bovine growth hormones (BGH),
excessive anibiotics, pesticides residues, and other concerns about the dairy
industry that should be worked on before things like changing the color of
their plastics.

I say we go back to all glass, (take our chances with the vitamins) reuse, and
the recycle the glass when we are done.

Just one consumers vote... Paul - Sonoma St. Univ.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 17:08:28 -0400
From: WOODY GETZ <WGETZ@FRE.FSU.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Colored Plastic Milk Ju

Paul Tapley wrote:
>
> Reply to: RE>>Colored Plastic Milk Jugs
>
> Rebecca,
>
> Thank you. You raised the point that I have been thinking all along
> while reading about the milk jugs: How far could the light penetrate
> into the product, and what percent of the product could possibly be
> affected? Keeping in mind that the product should only be affected
> while the store is open (lights off at night),
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The 2 or 3 major grocery stores in our county (population 75,000) in
Western Maryland are now open 24 hours/day and therefore the lights are
always on.
Many of the new gasoline/convenience stores where folks buy milk more
locally at odd times of the night & day are also open 24 hours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

> and only when the product is on the front of the shelf near the lights,
> and then product should only be under these conditions a matter of
> hours (or less) before it is sold. I'm no chemist, but it seems to me that
> it would be hard to measure any losses this small.
>
> If this situation was REALLY going to be studied, I would like to see
> ALL of the affected industries considerded in the equation. Where does
> the color come from? What by-products are produced when it is
> extracted or processed? Is any of the process toxic? Are new jobs
> being created? Are any jobs being lost? Recyclable? I could go on, but
> you get my point, there are many concequences to every action, and as
> many of these as possible should be considered before we undertake
> any activity of questionable benifits.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree.
However, many/most folks don't see the BIG Picture yet!
For example; by chance, I happened to be at a County Commissioners
weekly public meeting when an item on the agenda was for their nominal
approval of a loan from the state to the local milk company to build a
plant which would produce these new yellow milk jugs.
As our County was just beginning to get serious about recycling
(because the state was just beginning to get serious about recycling!),
I knew I was in the minority perspective, but asked if there would be
any tie-in between the approval of the loan and the milk company being
required to begin a campaign to have the milk jugs collected (drop off
style even) for recycling.
I was not at all surprised with how quickly the "No" response was
given.
It takes effort to educate. It takes time, let alone being "in the
right place at the right time".
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I drink milk, and will continue to do so out of refillable clear glass
> bottles. I choose to do so, not because I want less vitamins in my milk,
> but beacuse it comes from an "organic" dairy, and I also prefer to
> reuse containers when possible.
>
> Milk came in clear glass for many decades, and personally I have not
> heard of any vitamin A, D, or any other kind of deficencies in this
> country (at least not from well lit milk). I have heard of bovine growth
> hormones (BGH), excessive anibiotics, pesticides residues, and other
> concerns about the dairy industry that should be worked on before
> things like changing the color of their plastics.
>
> I say we go back to all glass, (take our chances with the vitamins)
> reuse, and the recycle the glass when we are done.
>
> Just one consumers vote... Paul - Sonoma St. Univ.
=========================================================
I wonder what the milk industry -- as opposed to individual milk
companies -- has to say about this proposed connection between the
degradation of the milk's nutritional value and the selected color of
the container?
Woody Getz
reduce, ReUse, Recycle, Compost - It's a small planet!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:04:37 -0700
From: Paul Tapley <Paul.Tapley@sonoma.edu>
Subject: Colored Plastic Milk Ju

Reply to: RE>>Colored Plastic Milk Ju

Woody,
You wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The 2 or 3 major grocery stores in our county (population 75,000) in
Western Maryland are now open 24 hours/day and therefore the lights are
always on.
Many of the new gasoline/convenience stores where folks buy milk more
locally at odd times of the night & day are also open 24 hours.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point, around here there is some kind of store open 24hrs on every other
street corner, I was trying to think of ways the light would be lessened, and
forgot the obvious/infamous 24hr. mart. I still think the light can not be
that big of an issue, as the nature of the product requires fast turn over...

It still seems rooted in a new marketing ploy. It is not often that an
industry is concerned about consumer health, on their own. I don't recall this
being started by the FDA, Consumer Reports, or some other kind of watch dog
type group. I could be wrong... Paul

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:47:06 -0400
From: WOODY GETZ <WGETZ@FRE.FSU.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Colored Plastic Milk Ju

Paul Tapley wrote:
>
> Reply to: RE>>Colored Plastic Milk Ju
>
> It still seems rooted in a new marketing ploy. It is not often that an
> industry is concerned about consumer health, on their own. I don't
> recall this being started by the FDA, Consumer Reports, or some other
> kind of watch dog type group. I could be wrong... Paul
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Paul,
Good point. I agree.
I do think an industry may be interested in their product to the degree
that it impacts their bottom line. Consumers certainly may switch to
another type beverage or other brand (an issue for an individual
company, not the industry) or just purchase less or none at all of a
product, if they believed it were dangerous, or even just less of a
value (nutrition/taste/etc.) for their money. But that's certainly not
the same as being concerned for the public-at-large!
But if milk's nutritional degradation due to light is the issue, why
didn't ALL milk companies throughout the industry -- even throughout the
world -- switch the color of their milk jugs? And in fact switch it to
the same color?
The longer I reflect on this "milk jug color" topic, the more I am
reminded of other similar marketing driven distinctions based on color
-- particularly in the soft drink field. Seven Up, ginger ales, Sprite
are in green glass containers, providing a visual distinction when on
the shelf, yet create the need for color separation to work toward the
economic benefits that a homogeneous product load provide. What, other
than the lack of marketing distinction, would be the disadvantage of
having those beverages in clear glass containers? Certainly there would
be several benefits from a solid waste/recycling perspective?
And this is just the green glass. Just think of all the other colors
and shades that have sprung up on the market shelves in the past few
years just for beverages! It fractionalizes the container glass market
and makes contamination more frequent in the recycling bins.
Woody
reduce, ReUse, Recycle, Compost - It's a small planet, isn't it?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 17:21:03 -0700
From: Paul Tapley <Paul.Tapley@sonoma.edu>
Subject: Colored Plastic Milk Ju

Reply to: RE>>Colored Plastic Milk Ju

Woody,

The whole milk jug thing "smells" like scented toilet paper to me. Another
round of production/polution for the "needs" of the consumer that we wouldn't
miss if we never had it. With floral scented toilet paper, does the "end user"
really care anyway?

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:28:39 -0400
From: chelsea center for recycling and economic development <ccfred@ici.net>
Subject: Colored Plastic Milk Jugs

I have been in touch a little with Hood-- they're office is across the
street from mine. Their stated reason for the change is vitamin
degradation. I remember hearing this argument a long time ago to promote
paper over glass or plastic milk containers, so it is an argument that has
been around for a while. I would like to know (and hope to find out):
1)how much of the light the milk is exposed to is before (vs. after) it is
in the package
2) what kind of light breaks down the vitamins. My guess is that the
majority of the light that the milk is exposed to after it is in the
container is in the supermarket. If so, maybe the lights in the milk
section could be inexpensively changed. I have a cousin who works with
lasers and light who has said she would be glad to look at any information
I can get and see if there might be a different type of light that would work.

Personally, though, I think that if Hood is right about the vitamin
degradation, they have every right to try and protect their product.
Amy Perlmutter
Executive Director
Chelsea Center for Recycling and
Economic Development
180 Second Street
Chelsea, MA 02150
617-887-2300/fax 617-887-0399

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:04:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rebecca J Herman <rjh1@christa.unh.edu>
Subject: Colored Plastic Milk Jugs

I think the best people to ask in regards to the milk jug question, would
be chemists.
I have begun contacting some, and I urge everybody else to do the same.
concerning the arguements presented by Hood, so far, I've heard 2 good
arguements raised by chemists. It has been brought to my attention that
these are
just thoughts, and not ideas that have been fully documented as of yet.
More to come. I tend to agree with the following arguements.

1. Vitamin A on the surficial areas of the jug will experience
degredation no matter what type or color the jug. However; light cannot
go past the surficial layer of the milk because of the color of the milk.
This concept I wish I could explain a little better, but I can't.
(sorry). It has to do with the refractive properties of opague white I
beleive.

2. Probably the only reason the jug is clear, as the color doesn't
matter, is so that the public can tell whether or not they are buying
cottage cheese. What will we be sold once the color changes?

-RJ Herman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 16:43:28 -0400
From: WOODY GETZ <WGETZ@FRE.FSU.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Colored Plastic Milk Jugs

Rebecca J Herman wrote:

>
> 2. Probably the only reason the jug is clear, as the color doesn't
> matter, is so that the public can tell whether or not they are buying
> cottage cheese. What will we be sold once the color changes?
>
> -RJ Herman
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Rebecca,
(As per my e-mail posted to GreenYes on Tuesday, October 21st at 8:02
PM) Our local dairy gave the reason for their change from "white"
plastic to "yellow" plastic milk jugs as being to protect the milk from
Vitamin degradation. I don't remember which vitamin. This change in
color occurred several years ago. Two years ago at least!
As to how the "public can tell whether or not they are buying cottage
cheese", I go by the product's label which includes a "SELL BY:" date
printed on the milk jug. Also our labels and the caps/lids are color
coded for the various (skim, 1%, 2%, etc.) types of milk.
I must admit I have not seen these yellow (or any other color for that
matter) milk jugs anywhere else. I had wondered about that but only in
terms of the vitamin issue, not for the recycling issue, as plastics are
not readily recyclable in our county.
Woody Getz
reduce, ReUse, Recycle, Compost - It's a small planet!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:33:54 -0400
From: WOODY GETZ <WGETZ@FRE.FSU.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Follow on to Green Yes No. 253/White Pigmented Milk BottleIssue

Cloutier, Chris wrote:
>
> I don't drink milk and think we would all be better off w/o the stuff
> (sorry George, I know that is heresy in the Dairy State).
>
> The trend in MN over the last several years has been to either move to
> an LDPE pouch (mostly in schools but has achieved some retail
> penetration)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Chris,
I had forgotten all about pouched milk until reading your comment!
I have lived & travelled in various parts of South Africa over the past
20 years, though mostly in Cape Town.
As long as I can remember, milk was purchased in plastic (I believe
LPDE) pouches. When brought home the pouch was placed in a container
which held the pouch "upright" and then the exposed corner snipped off
to allow pouring or it could be poured into a pitcher for use. It did
not eliminate the container waste, but did greatly reduce its weight and
air space.
It also reminds me that when visiting in 1991, I noticed an
announcement for a meeting of the Cape Recycling Network with a featured
speaker on: "The Paper Waste Market" and "The Re-Usable Shopping Bag
Campaign". [Accurate quotes, I still have the clipping!]
Over the years I had seen the growth of the use of plastic bags (but
there the handles were built into the bag long before I saw them here)
from retail stores. Unfortunately and not unpredictably, there was a
related growth of the littering of these same plastic bags!
The speaker from South African Paper Industry (SAPI) was touting the
use of *paper* grocery bags! The fact that the paper grocery bags could
be recycled was given as the strength of that the option over the use of
plastic bags. Nothing like trying to creating a new market for your
product!
During the Q & A segment, I brought out a couple of canvas shopping
bags that I had with me and pointed out this alternative which was on
the increase in the U.S. and which had fewer downsides to either the
plastic or paper options but retained the benefits.
Chris, thanks again for jogging my memories.
Woody Getz
Reduce, ReUse Recycle, Compost - It's a small planet!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:28:12 -0700
From: Robin Salsburg <robin@mrwmd.org>
Subject: Junk Mail Press Release

------ =_NextPart_000_01BCE089.2B001BA0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All--

Just wrote up a press release about the new law making it easier for =
people to get off some types of junk mail lists. I am sending it along =
with the hopes that you might be able to use it. Please feel free to =
lift it verbatim (just change the contact name and number) and send it =
out to your local media-- I would suggest print primarily. I would =
almost guarantee that it will get picked up.

Good luck,

Robin Salsburg
Monterey CA


------ =_NextPart_000_01BCE089.2B001BA0
Content-Type: text/plain; name="Junk Mail.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

For more information: Oct. 27, 1997
Robin Salsburg 384-5313 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

New Law Helps People Get Off Junk Mail Lists

Tired of getting junk mail? You know, the mail that goes right out for
recycling without even being read? On
average, a household receives 12 - 15 pieces of junk mail per week. The EPA
estimates that 2% of all
municipal solid waste is made up of junk mail and catalogs.

Changes to the federal Fair Credit Reporting Act, that took effect Sept. 30,
1997, may help to change all that.
Under one provision of the new law, consumers can call toll-free numbers to
remove themselves from lists used
by credit-card companies and some direct marketers to solicit them by mail.

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) describes the direct mail provision of
the new law this way: "Consumers
gain protections against unsolicited credit and insurance offers, including
the multiple credit card offers that
many consumers receive on a daily basis. Under the new law, consumers can
follow a simple procedure to "opt
out" of inclusion on future lists. They can call a toll-free number and have
their name removed from these lists
for two years. If they request, they will be sent a form that will allow
them to take their names off of these
credit bureau lists permanently."

Consumers need call only one of the three major national credit bureaus to
get off all such lists. The special
"opt-out" numbers are:
Equifax -- 1-800-556-4711
Experian (formerly TRW) -- 1-800-353-0809
Trans Union -- 1-800-680-7293

Another way to reduce the amount of junk mail you receive is to write to the
Direct Marketing Association.
Ask them to remove your name from the direct mail preference list. Make
sure to include variations of your
name, for example: John H. Doe, J.H. Doe, John Doe, etc.
Mail Preference Service
Direct Marketing Association
P.O. Box 9008
Farmingdale, NY 11735-9008

Unfortunately, this will not help with mail addressed to Occupant or
Resident, advertisements from local
companies, or mail from companies which already have your name. If you want
to stop receiving mail from
these companies, contact them directly.

Be patient. It may be between 3 to 6 months before you notice any
difference. And until then, keep recycling!

###

------ =_NextPart_000_01BCE089.2B001BA0--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 22:19:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: STEVESUESS@aol.com
Subject: Mail your Un-Recyclables to:

Mail Vice President Al Gore
Your Un-Recyclables

Dear Recycling Activists:

Vice President Al Gore is the honorary chair of America Recycles Day which
will be held on November 15, 1997. Americans everywhere are hearing about
America Recycles Day and how 41 states are sponsoring this event. Also, we
are hearing about the corporate sponsors of this event - many who are not
known to be recycling advocates. In this weeks Recycling Times we hear that
over 3,000 events will happen on this day, and the events will climax with a
speech by Al Gore on November 15th.

As more Americans recycle than vote, we know that Americans want to do right
and that we could do more. We know that there are too many materials that
still end up landfilled. Moreover, we know that there are too many items
being made and wasted in the first place.

We invite you to join us in letting Al Gore know how we feel, and in asking
him to help further source reduction and recycling even more. To do this:

Please mail to Al Gore some of the things you can't recycle!

(Do not send him anything toxic, sharp, gooey, smelly, slimly, or otherwise
disgusting or unhealthy. The ideal kind of things to send are clean plastic
packages that you can't recycle locally. Please mail these items off before
November 10,1997 so that he gets them by America Recycles Day. You do NOT
need to put many kinds of un-recyclables in a carton. For example a vinyl
(#3) shampoo bottle needs to be rinsed clean, and then you can simply put the
postage along with an address label on the bottle itself.)

Please let Al Gore know what you want!

(We believe that we should approach Al Gore as our friend. We applaud him
for promoting recycling, and we send him our un-recyclable discards as a
physical manifestation of our desire for him to do more to promote recycling
- and in particular the recycling of items such as these. We ask him to
bring our un-recyclables to his talk on America Recycles Day and to ask
corporate America to take back these items and recycle them. We ask Al Gore
to help by asking Americans and businesses everywhere to actively work
towards not just recycling, but the very elimination of ALL waste, towards a
goal of creating a zero waste society.)

Ask someone else that you know to do the same!

Here is the address and a sample letter. Feel free to use any, all, or no
parts of this letter, just please send in something you have that you can't
recycle, and also please don't forget to spread the word about our "Take it
Back" campaign.

Mr. Albert Gore
Vice President
Honorary Chair
America Recycles Day
Old Executive Office Bldg.
Washington DC 20500

Dear Mr. Gore,
I applaud your efforts in support of recycling. In particular, I appreciate
your support of America Recycles Day and of governmental purchases of items
made from recycled materials.
But I am frustrated by how much stuff comes with all the things I purchase,
and by how little of it is recyclable. I know that more Americans recycle
than vote, and yet it still surprises me how difficult it is to recycle so
many of those very things that claim to be recyclable - Those items which
have the chasing arrow symbol or the phrase "recyclable" on them. Add to
that all the stuff that doesn't claim to be recyclable, and well you can see
- we are simply throwing away our resources - we are turning the very wealth
we have into trash!
I am sending you sample(s) of some items I am stuck throwing in the trash in
the hopes that you will bring these with you on America Recycles Day and I
hope that you will speak up and ask corporate America to take back these
things, or even better to not make so much waste in the first place.
I believe that we Americans hate waste, that we would like to see it
eliminated, that our goal is Zero Waste. I know that you have concerns for
our environment and how much we waste - I sincerely hope that you too will
come forth and express your desire to eliminate all waste on America Recycles
Day.

Sincerely,

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:32:44 -0500
From: RecycleWorlds <anderson@msn.fullfeed.com>
Subject: Prices for PCR

QUOTE WITHOUT COMMENT
The October 1997 issue of Plastics World has a profile on Graham =
Recycling that has an interesting quotation that might bear on the =
possible price impact of minimum content legislation intended in part, =
perhaps, to offset virgin subsidies:

"As to recycling, future growth simply requires more collection. Graham =
Recycling could increase production easily by going to six day/week =
operation. It now runs 24 hours/day, five days a week. "That would add 7 =
million lb/year of PCR, but the economics don't make sense," say Gerald =
Claes, director of environmental affairs. "It we went out and all of a =
sudden bouth that many more bottles, it would push the price of bales to =
where it isn't economical."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 16:46:20 -0500
From: RecycleWorlds <anderson@msn.fullfeed.com>
Subject: PVC Market Share

FYI

The October 1997 issue of Modern Plastics has an article "PVC gains back =
share in rigid packaging." =20

A more careful reading of the article actually bases PVC's gains on =
sales to new markets such as Turkey and India, not the US or Europe, and =
insofar as the US is concerned, with regard to rigid bottles, only those =
larger size bottles (i.e. >64 oz.) that require handles that PET is not =
readily adaptable to and trays.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:23:04 -0400
From: Richard_Denison@edf.org
Subject: subscribe richard@edf.org

subscribe richard@edf.org

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:14:20 -0400
From: "Quinn R. Davidson" <QDavidsonNAPCOR@compuserve.com>
Subject: unsubscribe

Unsubscribe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:35:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rebecca J Herman <rjh1@christa.unh.edu>
Subject: vitamin A (fwd)

Here is another thought I received from another chemist friend. Again,
it's just a thought, but it's pretty interesting...

-RJ Herman

Dear Becky,

I haven't heard this one before. Vitamin A is a polyene and it would be
sensitive to ultraviolet light. trans-cis isomerization would give isomers.
But I doubt any ultraviolet light gets through the plastic bottle. The old
glass milk bottles may have been a bigger problem.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:12:38 -0400
From: Richard_Denison@edf.org

subscribe richard@edf.org

------------------------------

End of GreenYes Digest V97 #256
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