[GreenYes] Re: [SPAM] RE: [GreenYes] Re: EU conclusion on bioreactors

[Alan Muller <amuller@no.address>]

At 03:50 PM 2/12/2008 -0600, Reindl, John wrote:
>Allan ~
>
>I think that we need some hard data before we start passing judgement.
>
>John

Well, I think we need a lot more data before 
passing any judgements in favor....in my view, 
the presumption is overwhelmingly against.

Alan

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alan Muller [mailto:amuller@no.address]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 3:39 PM
>To: Reindl, John; Eric Lombardi; Helen Spiegelman; GreenYes
>Subject: Re: [GreenYes] Re: EU conclusion on bioreactors
>
>Folks,
>
>If the only data point we had was the WMI wanted 
>something, that would be enough to label it as bad idea.
>
>But if that isn't enough, just look at the 
>actual recovery (percentage) of gases from dumps 
>even under favorable circumstances.
>
>I haven't seen any data, but would think that 
>recirculating the leachate would increase the 
>levels of toxins in landfill gas as well as the 
>release of gaseous toxins into the ambient 
>air.  I would also think this would increase the 
>"strength" of the leachate, which would probably 
>accelerate degradation of rubber/plastic liners.
>
>An all-around horrible idea.
>
>am
>
>At 02:31 PM 2/12/2008 -0600, Reindl, John wrote:
>>Eric,
>>
>>You made the statement:
>>
>>  Never mind that Europe looked at bioreactors 
>> long ago and rejected them in any and all 
>> forms as unsafe and unable to keep pollution from the environment.
>>
>>
>>When I served on a committee on the future of 
>>materials management, I did a lot of reading of 
>>government and research organization documents 
>>and never found such a statement. I had hoped 
>>that you could provide such a document.
>>
>>John
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Eric Lombardi [ mailto:eric@no.address]
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:20 PM
>>To: Reindl, John; 'Helen Spiegelman'; 'GreenYes'
>>Subject: RE: [GreenYes] Re: EU conclusion on bioreactors
>>
>>John,
>>
>>My comment comes not from a source document, 
>>but from my personal work experiences with 
>>European waste experts over the last ten 
>>years.  I have had the good fortune to work 
>>with some incredible people across the ocean, 
>>and some of them may be on this list (or 
>>lurking).   I remember discussing the 
>>bioreactor situation with them almost five 
>>years ago and they thought it was funny how one 
>>large private corporation (Waste Management 
>>Inc) was going to take America down a path that 
>>the EU had already decided wasn?t a good choice.
>>
>>And I?m not sure you?re right that the EU 
>>Directive came before bioreactors, although I 
>>don?t have the documents to back me up.  Do 
>>you?  And I agree with Helen? the EU is 
>>aggresively shutting down the landfill as an 
>>option over the next 10 years and the way they 
>>are doing it is to LIMIT (and nearly prohibit) 
>>the amount of biodegradable material allowed to 
>>go in.  Hmmm? I wonder why that was their chosen strategy?
>>
>>Eric
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: GreenYes@no.address [ 
>>mailto:GreenYes@no.address] On Behalf Of Reindl, John
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:08 AM
>>To: Helen Spiegelman; GreenYes
>>Subject: [GreenYes] Re: EU conclusion on bioreactors
>>
>>Hi Helen ~
>>
>>My sense is that the EU Directive was 
>>promulgated before the concept of bioreactors was fully developed.
>>
>>It seems to me not a rejection, per se, but 
>>selection of a different path, when fewer pathes were available.
>>
>>And, the EU still allows organics in landfills, 
>>thus those landfills still have the long term 
>>issues related to organics to deal with.
>>
>>John
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: GreenYes@no.address [ 
>>mailto:GreenYes@no.address]On Behalf Of Helen Spiegelman
>>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 5:00 PM
>>To: GreenYes
>>Subject: [GreenYes] Re: EU conclusion on bioreactors
>>Interesting question raised here: since the EU 
>>Directive set limits on the % of organics in 
>>landfills doesn't this amount to a de-facto rejection of bioreactor landfills?
>>H.
>>At 02:14 PM 2/11/2008, Reindl, John wrote:
>>
>>Hi Eric ~
>>
>>Could you provide an official EU or other 
>>European agency document that shows that they 
>>have examined and rejected bioreactors "in any 
>>and all forms and as unsafe and unable to keep 
>>pollution from the environment"?
>>
>>I served on a committee that looked at 
>>accelerating the time frame at which waste 
>>disposal sites would degrade material in them 
>>and looked at what was going on in the EU,  but 
>>was not fortunate enough to come up with any 
>>references that included that conclusion.
>>
>>Thanks much,
>>
>>John
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: GreenYes@no.address [ 
>>mailto:GreenYes@no.address]On Behalf Of Eric Lombardi
>>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:02 PM
>>To: pdunn@no.address; 'GreenYes'
>>Subject: [GreenYes] Re: Michigan bill could 
>>repeal landfill ban on yard waste
>>   Never mind that Europe looked at bioreactors 
>> long ago and rejected them in any and all 
>> forms as unsafe and unable to keep pollution from the environment.
>>Eric
>>
>>
>><BR