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[greenyes] refs-subsidies for energy, other resources
  Posting below (after signature) is a recent discussion (11/25/02) from 
GreenYes listserv on subsidies for energy & other virgin resources.  Several 
excellent references are cited.
  Other superb, and I believe, soundly researched/documented resources, 
books, reports can be found at the sites of:
    Earth Policy Institute headed by the renowned Lester Brown
    Worldwatch Institute, premier publisher of State of the World, Worldwatch 
    Rocky Mountain Institute headed by Amory Lovins*

* at the time of "Gulf War I" I heard him give a speech on Public 
Broadcasting System (US) in which he asserted that true price of oil from 
Middle East, taking into account US military spending (subsidy) to wage the 
war, was (I'm paraphrasing from memory) in the neighborhood of US$10-20 more 
per barrel than the then-going market price of (as I recall) $20 per barrel.  
Hopefully, materials at RMI site will guide you to more on this.

Good luck,
Gretchen Brewer
Earth Circle
San Diego, CA, USA

Forwarded discussion & references from GreenYes 11/25/02:

Though focused primarily on energy, you can find a good deal of background 
information on how subsidies to natural resources operate on my website: .  You can also access some of my past work on subsidies 
to virgin materials there as well.

The site is entirely focused on the issue of subsidies.  Please note that the 
subsidy database has not yet been updated; the information in there now is a 
very partial picture.  Comments on site structure and content are welcomed.

-Doug Koplow

Doug Koplow
Earth Track, Inc.
Cambridge, MA  02140

>>> "Reindl, John" <Reindl@no.address> 11/14/02 04:37PM >>>
One good source of information are the reports of Green Scissors, found on
their web page at 

Another is the Welfare for Waste report on the GRRN site at 

However, many reports that deal with subsidies for virgin material and
energy generally do not include state and local subsidies. Some of these can
be substantial; Wisconsin, for example subsidies forestry within the state
to the tune of over $60 million a year, and perhaps at least double that.

John Reindl, Recycling Manager
Dane County, Wisconsin 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lori Stole [mailto:stole@no.address] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 12:05 PM
> To: 'GreenYes'
> Subject: RE: [GreenYes] In 50 words or less, help me understand
> Can anyone recommend some good references about the subsidies 
> on virgin materials? 
> - Lori
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-greenyes@no.address 
> [mailto:owner-greenyes@no.address]On Behalf
> Of Philip Prete
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 5:18 AM
> To: TomT; GreenYes
> Subject: RE: [GreenYes] In 50 words or less, help me understand
> Actually, more important than economies of scale are the 
> three simple words, "supply and demand."  The average 
> consumer (meaning large consumer) does not demand enough of 
> the product to drive manufacturers to reach economies of scale.
> Another two words that tip the scales in favor of the 
> non-recycled paper are "virgin subsidies."  Prices for 
> recycled paper would pull much closer to virgin fiber 
> manufactured paper if the federal tax laws were re-written to 
> remove the advantage given to timber harvest over secondary 
> materials "harvest."
> Of course this applies to virgin feedstocks for plastics, 
> metals and other extracted raw materials as well.
>    -Phil
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