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Will the fact that fish will disappear in 50 years---as reported in the media---help our cause? Neil On Nov 6, 2006, at 5:11 PM, Nancy Strauss wrote: > Captain Charles Moore has been at this for quite some time.... > http://www.algalita.org/research.html > > I think it comes down to a diversified way of dealing with litter, > illegal dumping and educating the public and businesses about what is > happening. > > Nancy > > -----Original Message----- > From: crra_members@no.address > [mailto:crra_members@no.address] > On Behalf Of Tedd Ward > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 1:14 PM > To: 'Dan Knapp'; michael@no.address > Cc: stephanie.barger@no.address; 'Justin Stockdale'; 'Matthew > Cotton'; 'Pete Pasterz'; RicAnthony@no.address; > stevew@no.address; > gary@no.address; crra_members@no.address; > GreenYes@no.address; zwia@no.address; > ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address; > sustainablebusiness@no.address; marc.gunther@no.address; > cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address; > stephanie@no.address; 'Anna Cummins'; 'Brenda Platt'; 'Debra > Hagstrom'; 'Jonathan Parfrey'; nseldman@no.address; 'Raymond Halowski'; > 'Steve Mosko'; 'Stuart Moody' > Subject: RE: [CRRA] Plastics in the ocean > > This seemed topical to the discussion... > > http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1106-01.htm > > > Tedd Ward, M.S. - Program Manager > Del Norte Solid Waste Management Authority > 1700 State Street > Crescent City, CA 95531 > > (707) 465-1100 > > "My life is garbage, but I'm in recovery." > > -----Original Message----- > From: crra_members@no.address > [mailto:crra_members@no.address] > On > Behalf Of Dan Knapp > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 2:19 PM > To: michael@no.address > Cc: stephanie.barger@no.address; 'Justin Stockdale'; 'Matthew > Cotton'; 'Pete Pasterz'; RicAnthony@no.address; > stevew@no.address; > gary@no.address; crra_members@no.address; > GreenYes@no.address; > zwia@no.address; ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; > ZERI-US@no.address; sustainablebusiness@no.address; > marc.gunther@no.address; cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address; > stephanie@no.address; 'Anna Cummins'; 'Brenda Platt'; 'Debra > Hagstrom'; 'Jonathan Parfrey'; nseldman@no.address; 'Raymond Halowski'; > 'Steve > Mosko'; 'Stuart Moody' > Subject: Re: [CRRA] RE: [GreenYes] Can you feed the stuff to the fish? > > To Michael, et. al. > > Thanks for the report on plastic bottled water. > > Many of my employees buy the stuff, so last year I read to them a > message to all municipal water supply users from East Bay Municipal > Utility District showing that our water was super clean and high > quality, coming straight from a protected watershed on the Tuoloumne > River in the Sierra Nevada. Some reacted with skepticism. I said I > always drink water from our taps, never from the bottled supply that > these folks insist is healthier. As we discussed this further, I was > amazed to find that one of our most enlightened managers thought our > tapwater was somehow contaminated by the fact of its having passed > through metal pipes in our 70-year-old industrial building! This > speaks to the "fears" that you mentioned. More sinister to me is the > corporate drive to privatize the water supply, often by saying > private companies can deliver a superior product or do it cheaper or > both. One of Enron's schemes under Skilling was to create an > international water supply company, after which they started buying > up various water suppliers around the world using money leveraged > from their eager lenders. It didn't work out well for them, > fortunately, but I doubt backers of this scheme are discouraged. I > view this as one more way to enclose the commons for private profit. > All those ad slogans about superior water in plastic bottles play > directly into this monopolistic desire by publicly traded companies > to turn a profit on every single bodily or mental function we have. > Water supplies should be publicly owned and managed for public > benefit! > > Dan Knapp > Urban Ore, Inc. > Berkeley, CA > On Nov 3, 2006, at 11:42 AM, J. Michael Huls wrote: > >> Hi Folks, >> >> Most of what is purchased as bottled water is actually from the >> tap. It is >> purified water from municipal water supplies. One of my favorite >> stories >> was in Houston, Texas, where you can buy bottled water "from the >> Ozark >> Mountains (Ozarka)." However, when you read the fine print on the >> label, it >> states "from Harris County Municipal Water Supply" which is the >> County in >> which Houston is located. So, most people who buy such water are >> actually >> paying double or triple what they already have in their home. It >> has always >> been a scam for companies to prey on the fears of people that they >> are being >> poisoned by tap water. In some cases, this might have been true >> (water >> contaminated at Love Canal, PG&E, etc.). >> >> Where water is drawn from mountain sources, I agree that Stephanie >> is right >> on target, as it draws water away from more important uses. >> >> Furthermore, plastic bottles are not necessarily "safe." When I >> was taking >> samples for US EPA of hazardous waste sites, we could not use any >> plastic >> containers but only glass containers (this is a sampling >> requirement). When >> water is left in plastic containers, it is a wonderful solvent, and >> strips >> out various contaminants such as MEK and other pasticizers in the >> plastic >> bottle wall; especially when such bottles are lift out in the sun >> and get >> irradiated and heated to near boiling temperature. I actualy did an >> experiment and conducted full laboratory analyses on pure distilled >> water >> samples in plastic containers. The lab report on the distilled >> water came >> back with the water contaminated with MEK and some other nasties as >> if it >> was hazardous. >> >> >> J. Michael Huls, REA >> >> Huls Environmental Management, LLC >> 1074 Parkview Drive, Suite 105 >> Covina, CA 91724 >> (626) 332-7514 ofc >> (626) 332-7504 fax >> www.hulsenv.com <http://www.hulsenv.com> >> >> The information contained in this email is confidential and may >> also contain >> privileged consultant-client information or work product. The >> information >> is intended only for the use of the individual entity to whom it is >> addressed. If you are not the intended receipient, or the employee >> or agent >> responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby >> notified >> that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this >> communication >> is strictly prohibited. If you have received the email in error, >> please >> immediately notify us by telephone and/or return the message to us >> at the >> email address above. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: crra_members@no.address >> [mailto:crra_members@no.address] On >> Behalf Of Stephanie Barger >> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 9:36 AM >> To: 'Justin Stockdale'; 'Matthew Cotton'; 'Pete Pasterz' >> Cc: RicAnthony@no.address; stevew@no.address; gary@no.address; >> crra_members@no.address; GreenYes@no.address; >> zwia@no.address; >> ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address; >> sustainablebusiness@no.address; marc.gunther@no.address; >> cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address; >> stephanie@no.address; >> Anna Cummins; Brenda Platt; Debra Hagstrom; Jonathan Parfrey; >> nseldman@no.address; Raymond Halowski; Steve Mosko; Stuart Moody >> Subject: [CRRA] RE: [GreenYes] Can you feed the stuff to the fish? >> >> Hi Everyone >> >> I have not jumped in before as I have enjoyed how educated and >> aware people >> are becoming of the many challenges surrounding bioplastics. They >> are a >> great "Alternative" but not a solution. >> >> Zero Waste - I do not want to speak for all the Zero Wasters but >> our Zero >> Waste policy does not promote any product that causes more >> consumption and >> disposable items. We are about "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle". Our >> biggest >> challenge is to get away from the need for instant convenience and we >> continually promote reusable everything and more important >> regarding bottled >> water the following are high priorities >> >> Bottled Water >> >> 1) We are stripping our natural springs where life begins >> 2) We should be pushing for clean and safe water directly from the >> tap >> 3) Water bottles allow a HUGE amount waste of water. We stopped >> using >> bottled water at any of our beach cleanups because we would find >> over 50% of >> the water was left in bottles (let alone the pollution of the >> bottles) >> 4) The amount of energy required for shipping any type of bottled >> water from >> the mountains to our local grocery stores or across the pacific >> from FIJI >> 5) It is a huge financial strain on low-income families and most of >> them to >> do even realize the amount they are spending. This is a great >> environmental >> "Math" problem that our 3rd and 4th graders solve and they see the >> value of >> instead of bottled water they could have a new bike, a vacation, etc. >> >> Zero Waste is about looking at ALL the inputs and outputs and I do >> not see >> how bottled water fits into any of our policies. I would like to >> see a >> campaign that would ask people, etc to reduce the amount of bottled >> water we >> consume whether it be in bioplastics vs. petroplastics. >> >> Please attend our conference on November 15th to learn more about >> zero waste >> http://www.earthresource.org/zerowaste.html >> >> Stephanie Barger, Executive Director >> stephanie.barger@no.address >> Earth Resource Foundation >> 230 E. 17th St #208 >> Costa Mesa, CA 92627 >> www.earthresource.org <http://www.earthresource.org/> >> 949-645-5163 >> >> Help support Earth Resource Foundation's youth programs and >> campaigns for: >> smoke free beaches, plastic reduction and promotion of electric >> cars and >> renewable energies >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: Justin Stockdale [mailto:jstockdale@no.address] >> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 9:00 AM >> To: 'Matthew Cotton'; 'Pete Pasterz' >> Cc: RicAnthony@no.address; stevew@no.address; gary@no.address; >> crra_members@no.address; GreenYes@no.address; >> zwia@no.address; >> ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address; >> sustainablebusiness@no.address; marc.gunther@no.address; >> cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address; >> stephanie@no.address >> Subject: RE: [GreenYes] Can you feed the stuff to the fish? >> >> >> >> I feel like I am missing something in the ongoing debate about the >> virtues >> of PLA and other bio-plastics.is no one concerned that these >> plastics stand >> to sanctify the production of gmo's as environmentally preferable >> simply >> because they fit nicely into the zero waste framework? To read >> recently that >> the Boulder farmers market is not only proud, but touting their >> zero waste >> status though the use of gmo products seems to me to be as contrary >> to the >> virtues of a farmers market as possible. >> >> I am struck that the zero waste movement is getting lost striving >> for the >> magic zero.that they have divorced their movement from all other >> aspects of >> environmental responsibility? Just because it is compostable does >> not make a >> starlink knife a good thing. >> >> >> >> And please do not forget that recycling, composting and the lot is >> still >> waste, if you have it to be recycled you have still generated >> waste.... >> >> >> >> Justin Stockdale >> >> Buckman Road Recycling & Transfer Station >> >> 149 Wildlife Way >> >> Santa Fe, NM 87506 >> >> 505-424-1850 >> >> jstockdale@no.address >> >> Save your local landfill...Recycle >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address] >> On Behalf >> Of Matthew Cotton >> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:06 PM >> To: Pete Pasterz >> Cc: RicAnthony@no.address; stevew@no.address; gary@no.address; >> crra_members@no.address; GreenYes@no.address; >> zwia@no.address; >> ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address; >> sustainablebusiness@no.address; marc.gunther@no.address; >> cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address; >> stephanie@no.address >> Subject: [GreenYes] Can you feed the stuff to the fish? >> >> >> >> Rick (et al) - >> >> >> >> I agree that the introduction of biodegradable "stuff" brings up >> issues, >> both new and existing. I guess the question is: Does the >> introduction of PLA >> (or other compostable stuff) necessarily lead to more litter or >> more plastic >> in the environment? We have a massive litter problem now, but I >> don't see >> how the introduction of compostable stuff increases this problem. >> >> >> >> Yes, we have a lot of education to do. I just had a quick lunch of >> an Annie >> Chun "instant" noodle bowl. It came in a "biodegradable" container, >> which is >> cool. But there is no information on the package or on their >> website about >> what to do with this. Should I put it in my home composting bin? >> (probably). >> Should I try to get it to a composting facility that takes food >> scraps and >> biod egradable stuff? How is a consumer supposed to know what to do >> with it? >> Is this just furthering the myth that eventually all things will >> decompose >> in the landfill? >> >> >> >> As you know, I was on the panel at NRC that discussed some of these >> issues. >> I wish I had had a chance to bring up the concept of MOOP (Matter >> Out of >> Place). Probably a good concept to think about. Along the road to >> zero waste >> we've got to focus on the MOOP. All of the plastic in the >> environment is >> MOOP. The way to fix this is to provide the education and the >> infrastructure >> to get the Matter into the right place (as for example, Eco-Cycle >> is doing >> with their Center for Hard to Recycle Materials, why aren't there >> more of >> these?). >> >> >> >> Replacing some or all of the food service containers and utensils >> with a >> biodegradable alternative may ensure that at least some of it gets >> recovered >> via composting. I ag ree wholeheartedly with Stephen's point that >> it would >> seem that most non-bottle plastics (and I think nationally we're >> recycling >> about 25% of those?), in most places, don't get recycled, so either >> end up >> in a landfill, in an incinerator, or in the environment. So to the >> extent >> that we can replace these non-recyclable items with compostable >> ones, we can >> hope to recover at least some of them and hopefully recover some of >> the >> wasted food that is also landfilled along with them. >> >> >> >> Matthew Cotton >> >> Integrated Waste Management Consulting, LLC >> >> 19375 Lake City Road >> >> Nevada City, CA 95959 >> >> 530-265-4560 >> >> mattcotton@no.address >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 2, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Pete Pasterz wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Especially after the NRC presentation during which the NatureWorks >> rep. >> stated that PLA will NOT decompose as litter on the roadside or in >> water; >> only in a compost pile of 150 degrees! >> >> >> >> Pete Pasterz >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address] >> On Behalf >> Of RicAnthony@no.address >> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 3:12 PM >> To: stevew@no.address; gary@no.address; crra >> _members@no.address; GreenYes@no.address; >> zwia@no.address; >> ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address; >> sustainablebusiness@no.address >> Cc: marc.gunther@no.address; cmoore@no.address; >> mgordon@no.address; >> stephanie@no.address >> Subject: [heur] [GreenYes] Can you feed the stuff to the fish? >> Importance: Low >> >> In a message dated 11/2/2006 12:06:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> stevew@no.address writes:think bio-plastic bottles are a >> great idea >> except the "recycling problem" is definitely a concern.....shoul d >> definitely support other bio-plastic products such as cups, and >> foodservice >> containers. >> >> >> >> I worry about all the food service containers and utensils that are >> dumped >> into the environment becoming fish and bird food before totally >> decomposed. >> >> Rick >> >> |
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