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[GreenYes] Re: [CRRA] Plastics in the ocean



Will the fact that fish will disappear in 50 years---as reported in
the media---help our cause?

Neil

On Nov 6, 2006, at 5:11 PM, Nancy Strauss wrote:

> Captain Charles Moore has been at this for quite some time....
> http://www.algalita.org/research.html
>
> I think it comes down to a diversified way of dealing with litter,
> illegal dumping and educating the public and businesses about what is
> happening.
>
> Nancy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: crra_members@no.address
> [mailto:crra_members@no.address]
> On Behalf Of Tedd Ward
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 1:14 PM
> To: 'Dan Knapp'; michael@no.address
> Cc: stephanie.barger@no.address; 'Justin Stockdale'; 'Matthew
> Cotton'; 'Pete Pasterz'; RicAnthony@no.address;
> stevew@no.address;
> gary@no.address; crra_members@no.address;
> GreenYes@no.address; zwia@no.address;
> ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address;
> sustainablebusiness@no.address; marc.gunther@no.address;
> cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address;
> stephanie@no.address; 'Anna Cummins'; 'Brenda Platt'; 'Debra
> Hagstrom'; 'Jonathan Parfrey'; nseldman@no.address; 'Raymond Halowski';
> 'Steve Mosko'; 'Stuart Moody'
> Subject: RE: [CRRA] Plastics in the ocean
>
> This seemed topical to the discussion...
>
> http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1106-01.htm
>
>
> Tedd Ward, M.S. - Program Manager
> Del Norte Solid Waste Management Authority
> 1700 State Street
> Crescent City, CA 95531
>
> (707) 465-1100
>
> "My life is garbage, but I'm in recovery."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: crra_members@no.address
> [mailto:crra_members@no.address]
> On
> Behalf Of Dan Knapp
> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 2:19 PM
> To: michael@no.address
> Cc: stephanie.barger@no.address; 'Justin Stockdale'; 'Matthew
> Cotton'; 'Pete Pasterz'; RicAnthony@no.address;
> stevew@no.address;
> gary@no.address; crra_members@no.address;
> GreenYes@no.address;
> zwia@no.address; ZERI_Practitioners@no.address;
> ZERI-US@no.address; sustainablebusiness@no.address;
> marc.gunther@no.address; cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address;
> stephanie@no.address; 'Anna Cummins'; 'Brenda Platt'; 'Debra
> Hagstrom'; 'Jonathan Parfrey'; nseldman@no.address; 'Raymond Halowski';
> 'Steve
> Mosko'; 'Stuart Moody'
> Subject: Re: [CRRA] RE: [GreenYes] Can you feed the stuff to the fish?
>
> To Michael, et. al.
>
> Thanks for the report on plastic bottled water.
>
> Many of my employees buy the stuff, so last year I read to them a
> message to all municipal water supply users from East Bay Municipal
> Utility District showing that our water was super clean and high
> quality, coming straight from a protected watershed on the Tuoloumne
> River in the Sierra Nevada. Some reacted with skepticism. I said I
> always drink water from our taps, never from the bottled supply that
> these folks insist is healthier. As we discussed this further, I was
> amazed to find that one of our most enlightened managers thought our
> tapwater was somehow contaminated by the fact of its having passed
> through metal pipes in our 70-year-old industrial building! This
> speaks to the "fears" that you mentioned. More sinister to me is the
> corporate drive to privatize the water supply, often by saying
> private companies can deliver a superior product or do it cheaper or
> both. One of Enron's schemes under Skilling was to create an
> international water supply company, after which they started buying
> up various water suppliers around the world using money leveraged
> from their eager lenders. It didn't work out well for them,
> fortunately, but I doubt backers of this scheme are discouraged. I
> view this as one more way to enclose the commons for private profit.
> All those ad slogans about superior water in plastic bottles play
> directly into this monopolistic desire by publicly traded companies
> to turn a profit on every single bodily or mental function we have.
> Water supplies should be publicly owned and managed for public
> benefit!
>
> Dan Knapp
> Urban Ore, Inc.
> Berkeley, CA
> On Nov 3, 2006, at 11:42 AM, J. Michael Huls wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Most of what is purchased as bottled water is actually from the
>> tap. It is
>> purified water from municipal water supplies. One of my favorite
>> stories
>> was in Houston, Texas, where you can buy bottled water "from the
>> Ozark
>> Mountains (Ozarka)." However, when you read the fine print on the
>> label, it
>> states "from Harris County Municipal Water Supply" which is the
>> County in
>> which Houston is located. So, most people who buy such water are
>> actually
>> paying double or triple what they already have in their home. It
>> has always
>> been a scam for companies to prey on the fears of people that they
>> are being
>> poisoned by tap water. In some cases, this might have been true
>> (water
>> contaminated at Love Canal, PG&E, etc.).
>>
>> Where water is drawn from mountain sources, I agree that Stephanie
>> is right
>> on target, as it draws water away from more important uses.
>>
>> Furthermore, plastic bottles are not necessarily "safe." When I
>> was taking
>> samples for US EPA of hazardous waste sites, we could not use any
>> plastic
>> containers but only glass containers (this is a sampling
>> requirement). When
>> water is left in plastic containers, it is a wonderful solvent, and
>> strips
>> out various contaminants such as MEK and other pasticizers in the
>> plastic
>> bottle wall; especially when such bottles are lift out in the sun
>> and get
>> irradiated and heated to near boiling temperature. I actualy did an
>> experiment and conducted full laboratory analyses on pure distilled
>> water
>> samples in plastic containers. The lab report on the distilled
>> water came
>> back with the water contaminated with MEK and some other nasties as
>> if it
>> was hazardous.
>>
>>
>> J. Michael Huls, REA
>>
>> Huls Environmental Management, LLC
>> 1074 Parkview Drive, Suite 105
>> Covina, CA 91724
>> (626) 332-7514 ofc
>> (626) 332-7504 fax
>> www.hulsenv.com <http://www.hulsenv.com>
>>
>> The information contained in this email is confidential and may
>> also contain
>> privileged consultant-client information or work product. The
>> information
>> is intended only for the use of the individual entity to whom it is
>> addressed. If you are not the intended receipient, or the employee
>> or agent
>> responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby
>> notified
>> that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> communication
>> is strictly prohibited. If you have received the email in error,
>> please
>> immediately notify us by telephone and/or return the message to us
>> at the
>> email address above.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: crra_members@no.address
>> [mailto:crra_members@no.address] On
>> Behalf Of Stephanie Barger
>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 9:36 AM
>> To: 'Justin Stockdale'; 'Matthew Cotton'; 'Pete Pasterz'
>> Cc: RicAnthony@no.address; stevew@no.address; gary@no.address;
>> crra_members@no.address; GreenYes@no.address;
>> zwia@no.address;
>> ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address;
>> sustainablebusiness@no.address; marc.gunther@no.address;
>> cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address;
>> stephanie@no.address;
>> Anna Cummins; Brenda Platt; Debra Hagstrom; Jonathan Parfrey;
>> nseldman@no.address; Raymond Halowski; Steve Mosko; Stuart Moody
>> Subject: [CRRA] RE: [GreenYes] Can you feed the stuff to the fish?
>>
>> Hi Everyone
>>
>> I have not jumped in before as I have enjoyed how educated and
>> aware people
>> are becoming of the many challenges surrounding bioplastics. They
>> are a
>> great "Alternative" but not a solution.
>>
>> Zero Waste - I do not want to speak for all the Zero Wasters but
>> our Zero
>> Waste policy does not promote any product that causes more
>> consumption and
>> disposable items. We are about "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle". Our
>> biggest
>> challenge is to get away from the need for instant convenience and we
>> continually promote reusable everything and more important
>> regarding bottled
>> water the following are high priorities
>>
>> Bottled Water
>>
>> 1) We are stripping our natural springs where life begins
>> 2) We should be pushing for clean and safe water directly from the
>> tap
>> 3) Water bottles allow a HUGE amount waste of water. We stopped
>> using
>> bottled water at any of our beach cleanups because we would find
>> over 50% of
>> the water was left in bottles (let alone the pollution of the
>> bottles)
>> 4) The amount of energy required for shipping any type of bottled
>> water from
>> the mountains to our local grocery stores or across the pacific
>> from FIJI
>> 5) It is a huge financial strain on low-income families and most of
>> them to
>> do even realize the amount they are spending. This is a great
>> environmental
>> "Math" problem that our 3rd and 4th graders solve and they see the
>> value of
>> instead of bottled water they could have a new bike, a vacation, etc.
>>
>> Zero Waste is about looking at ALL the inputs and outputs and I do
>> not see
>> how bottled water fits into any of our policies. I would like to
>> see a
>> campaign that would ask people, etc to reduce the amount of bottled
>> water we
>> consume whether it be in bioplastics vs. petroplastics.
>>
>> Please attend our conference on November 15th to learn more about
>> zero waste
>> http://www.earthresource.org/zerowaste.html
>>
>> Stephanie Barger, Executive Director
>> stephanie.barger@no.address
>> Earth Resource Foundation
>> 230 E. 17th St #208
>> Costa Mesa, CA 92627
>> www.earthresource.org <http://www.earthresource.org/>
>> 949-645-5163
>>
>> Help support Earth Resource Foundation's youth programs and
>> campaigns for:
>> smoke free beaches, plastic reduction and promotion of electric
>> cars and
>> renewable energies
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>> From: Justin Stockdale [mailto:jstockdale@no.address]
>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 9:00 AM
>> To: 'Matthew Cotton'; 'Pete Pasterz'
>> Cc: RicAnthony@no.address; stevew@no.address; gary@no.address;
>> crra_members@no.address; GreenYes@no.address;
>> zwia@no.address;
>> ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address;
>> sustainablebusiness@no.address; marc.gunther@no.address;
>> cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address;
>> stephanie@no.address
>> Subject: RE: [GreenYes] Can you feed the stuff to the fish?
>>
>>
>>
>> I feel like I am missing something in the ongoing debate about the
>> virtues
>> of PLA and other bio-plastics.is no one concerned that these
>> plastics stand
>> to sanctify the production of gmo's as environmentally preferable
>> simply
>> because they fit nicely into the zero waste framework? To read
>> recently that
>> the Boulder farmers market is not only proud, but touting their
>> zero waste
>> status though the use of gmo products seems to me to be as contrary
>> to the
>> virtues of a farmers market as possible.
>>
>> I am struck that the zero waste movement is getting lost striving
>> for the
>> magic zero.that they have divorced their movement from all other
>> aspects of
>> environmental responsibility? Just because it is compostable does
>> not make a
>> starlink knife a good thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> And please do not forget that recycling, composting and the lot is
>> still
>> waste, if you have it to be recycled you have still generated
>> waste....
>>
>>
>>
>> Justin Stockdale
>>
>> Buckman Road Recycling & Transfer Station
>>
>> 149 Wildlife Way
>>
>> Santa Fe, NM 87506
>>
>> 505-424-1850
>>
>> jstockdale@no.address
>>
>> Save your local landfill...Recycle
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>> From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address]
>> On Behalf
>> Of Matthew Cotton
>> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:06 PM
>> To: Pete Pasterz
>> Cc: RicAnthony@no.address; stevew@no.address; gary@no.address;
>> crra_members@no.address; GreenYes@no.address;
>> zwia@no.address;
>> ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address;
>> sustainablebusiness@no.address; marc.gunther@no.address;
>> cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address;
>> stephanie@no.address
>> Subject: [GreenYes] Can you feed the stuff to the fish?
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick (et al) -
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree that the introduction of biodegradable "stuff" brings up
>> issues,
>> both new and existing. I guess the question is: Does the
>> introduction of PLA
>> (or other compostable stuff) necessarily lead to more litter or
>> more plastic
>> in the environment? We have a massive litter problem now, but I
>> don't see
>> how the introduction of compostable stuff increases this problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, we have a lot of education to do. I just had a quick lunch of
>> an Annie
>> Chun "instant" noodle bowl. It came in a "biodegradable" container,
>> which is
>> cool. But there is no information on the package or on their
>> website about
>> what to do with this. Should I put it in my home composting bin?
>> (probably).
>> Should I try to get it to a composting facility that takes food
>> scraps and
>> biod egradable stuff? How is a consumer supposed to know what to do
>> with it?
>> Is this just furthering the myth that eventually all things will
>> decompose
>> in the landfill?
>>
>>
>>
>> As you know, I was on the panel at NRC that discussed some of these
>> issues.
>> I wish I had had a chance to bring up the concept of MOOP (Matter
>> Out of
>> Place). Probably a good concept to think about. Along the road to
>> zero waste
>> we've got to focus on the MOOP. All of the plastic in the
>> environment is
>> MOOP. The way to fix this is to provide the education and the
>> infrastructure
>> to get the Matter into the right place (as for example, Eco-Cycle
>> is doing
>> with their Center for Hard to Recycle Materials, why aren't there
>> more of
>> these?).
>>
>>
>>
>> Replacing some or all of the food service containers and utensils
>> with a
>> biodegradable alternative may ensure that at least some of it gets
>> recovered
>> via composting. I ag ree wholeheartedly with Stephen's point that
>> it would
>> seem that most non-bottle plastics (and I think nationally we're
>> recycling
>> about 25% of those?), in most places, don't get recycled, so either
>> end up
>> in a landfill, in an incinerator, or in the environment. So to the
>> extent
>> that we can replace these non-recyclable items with compostable
>> ones, we can
>> hope to recover at least some of them and hopefully recover some of
>> the
>> wasted food that is also landfilled along with them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Matthew Cotton
>>
>> Integrated Waste Management Consulting, LLC
>>
>> 19375 Lake City Road
>>
>> Nevada City, CA 95959
>>
>> 530-265-4560
>>
>> mattcotton@no.address
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 2, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Pete Pasterz wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Especially after the NRC presentation during which the NatureWorks
>> rep.
>> stated that PLA will NOT decompose as litter on the roadside or in
>> water;
>> only in a compost pile of 150 degrees!
>>
>>
>>
>> Pete Pasterz
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>> From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address]
>> On Behalf
>> Of RicAnthony@no.address
>> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 3:12 PM
>> To: stevew@no.address; gary@no.address; crra
>> _members@no.address; GreenYes@no.address;
>> zwia@no.address;
>> ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address;
>> sustainablebusiness@no.address
>> Cc: marc.gunther@no.address; cmoore@no.address;
>> mgordon@no.address;
>> stephanie@no.address
>> Subject: [heur] [GreenYes] Can you feed the stuff to the fish?
>> Importance: Low
>>
>> In a message dated 11/2/2006 12:06:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>> stevew@no.address writes:think bio-plastic bottles are a
>> great idea
>> except the "recycling problem" is definitely a concern.....shoul d
>> definitely support other bio-plastic products such as cups, and
>> foodservice
>> containers.
>>
>>
>>
>> I worry about all the food service containers and utensils that are
>> dumped
>> into the environment becoming fish and bird food before totally
>> decomposed.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>

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