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[GreenYes] Re: Biosolids. Incineration & Confidentiality Statements?

I still don¹t see an independent analysis, especially with today¹s energy
prices. I want to see the capital and operating dollars, Btus in and out,
system efficiency analysis, emissions studies, a heat content analysis, the
subsidies and any guaranteed pricing, and then the full analysis of
recycling, including sensitivity analysis based on participation rates of,
say, 40%, 60%, 80% and 90% with a waste composition analysis that is
well-defined and fully verifiable, and collection, processing and marketing
costs and benefits.

If this kind of work isn¹t available, then I don¹t see the point of debating
it. Confidentiality statements aside...

As always, we shall await the reality of technology implementation. In my
25 years in the field, I have yet to see a $425 million project work the way
its investors think it will?for anything. I just hope the folks in St. Lucie
County have paid someone a solid chunk of change for serious, smart, and
intelligible due diligence.


David Biddle, Executive Director
Greater Philadelphia Commercial Recycling Council
P.O. Box 4037
Philadelphia, PA 19118

215-247-3090 (desk)
215-432-8225 (cell)


Read In Business magazine to learn about sustainable
businesses in communities across North America!
Go to: <>

on 8/21/06 4:00 PM, David Jaber at djaber@no.address wrote:

> In addition to Dave Biddle's excellent comments, from a systems perspective,
> since we're all embedded and supported by natural systems, let's look at how
> they operate.
> Consider where incinerative processes work, where they don't work, how often
> they happen, and what type of fuels they use. It might prove a good guide to
> see if, where, and how to incorporate incineration into human processes, and
> keep a healthy integration with our communities and world.
> Any ecological biologists or biomicrists, fire away.
> On Monday, Aug 21, 2006, at 11:43 US/Pacific, Monica Wilson wrote:
>> Apologies that the GreenYes list has been hijacked by this conversation, but
>> I'll just share one last thought which is that plasma is clearly incineration
>> when the resulting gases are incinerated. This is why the European Union
>> considers plasma, gasification and pyrolysis to be incinerators -- combustion
>> of waste, even if it's treated first, is incineration:
>> The European Union Parliament's Directive on Incineration of Waste:
>> "'[I]ncineration plant' means any stationary or mobile technical unit
>> andequipment dedicated to the thermal treatment of wastes with or
>> withoutrecovery of the combustion heat generated. This includes the
>> incineration byoxidation of waste as well as other thermal treatment
>> processes such aspyrolysis, gasification or plasma processes in so far as the
>> substancesresulting from the treatment are subsequently incinerated."
>> Not to mention the question of spending over $400 million to destroy valuable
>> resources that could be recycled and composted. I suggest we put our money
>> and efforts into stopping the twin problems of resource depletion and waste
>> creation, rather than subsidizing wasting by finding new ways to juggle mixed
>> discards.
>> I'm happy to continue this discussion with anyone off list to not overwhelm
>> the entire email list.
>> Regards,
>> Monica Wilson
> <image.tiff>
>> From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address] On Behalf
>> Of LWheeler45@no.address
>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:40 AM
>> To: amuller@no.address; arboone3@no.address; GreenYes@no.address
>> Subject: [GreenYes] Re: Biosolids. Sealed means independent testing !
>> Sealed means independent testing with the seal of the testing lab embossed on
>> the pages like a notary. 
>> I will send you a copy off net of sampled sealed test info and the details
>> onmachine I observed which was greatly improved since 2004.
>> The energy balance varies depending on what is put in as is demonstrated in
>> the Westinghouse system. Plama reduic of Coal yield is much better than sewer
>> sludge.
>> Plasma loves all plastics especially auto fluff.
>> Fla has lots of waste streams that are more or less pure high hydrocarbon
>> containing feedstock types this allows even greater efficiency and thruput. 
>> By the way anyone that says Plasma is incineration is clueless on the
>> process. NO FLAME inert gas no oxygen involved. And really really clean. EPA
>> emissions sheet on Medical Waste will be sent to you off net.
>> AS far as cost is concerned the deal that the old plasma company made to my
>> county was FREE system contracted waste stream and agreed on price of
>> electrical power which was better than our existing Covanta contract. Lake Co
>> has one of three legacy waste to enegy plants in Fla.  Uses Natural Gas to
>> keep the temps consistent and lots of water to control emissions. We also
>> have a class Blandfill and ash to contend with. And Lake CO also recycles
>> glass, plastic, cardboard and metals cans and white goods.
> >

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