Re: [greenyes] Sticker Shock

["Peter Anderson" <anderson@no.address>]

Gosh I didn't think this was going to get so much back and forths, but I 
strongly disagree with Jenny. Let me explain why I feel this way.

The difference is that there are some things that we do that are part of the 
base environmental cost of living/doing business, then there are others that 
are outside the pale of venality/stupidity...SUV Hummers being only the most 
graphic example. By definiiton in a strategic sense, the latter are things 
that should be stopped and not ameliorated. Damping something that never 
should have been done in the first place is never better than pushing to 
stop it.

Here we are, then, if this is not laughed out of the ball park, on the cusp 
of SUV owners finally about to feel the pain of stigma for their outrageous 
choice, and someone is going to hand them a get of of jail/guilt card.

That's the very last thing we want to do...combined with the fact that, if 
we want to get techie, there is a very BIG difference between e.g. the SO2 
trading for acid rain, which is looked to as showing how good trading is, 
and carbon trading around the world.  The utilities were all in this 
country, their emissions were localized in a few very large and highly 
regulated plants, and things could be checked and verified to make sure 
intentions were followed by real actions....carbon trading shares none of 
that and is VERY squishy.

We're on the path to being horseswaggled and trivialized, so that we will 
effectively be doing very little, while essentially accomplishing nothing, 
yet feeling santimonious as we march off to our own funeral. The thought 
turns my stomach.

If our fate is confined to twittering around the edges of 5 ton SUV hyrbrids 
with cutsie bumper stickers, we might as well close up shop now.


                                                                             
    Peter

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Lombardi" <eric@no.address>
To: "'Jenny Gitlitz'" <jenny.gitlitz@no.address>; "'greenyes'" 
<greenyes@no.address>
Cc: "'Peter Anderson'" <anderson@no.address>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: [greenyes] Sticker Shock


Jenny,

That's what my first thought was ... it's just a carbon-trading (CT) scheme
for individuals, similar in many ways to allowing the dirty power plants to
keep on running.  If it's good for them, why not us?  Then again, some
people think carbon-trading isn't good.  I guess I would say that CT is OK
only if it's used as a "bridge" that allows sunk investments to recovered
and requires a timeline for old tech to retire and new tech to come on-line.

Eric

Eric Lombardi
Executive Director
Eco-Cycle Inc
303-444-6634
www.ecocycle.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Jenny Gitlitz [mailto:jenny.gitlitz@no.address]
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:49 PM
To: greenyes
Cc: Peter Anderson
Subject: Re: [greenyes] Sticker Shock

How is this any different from other GHG market trading mechanisms? That it
targets the wallets of individual drivers instead of corporate power plant
coffers?

Yes, it sounds ridiculous for Hummer owners to buy these stickers to appease
their guzzling guilt, but for many of us who are stuck driving 10-year old
cars because we can't afford the $22,000 sticker price of a Toyota
Prius--much as we'd like to buy one--this low-cost sticker program might be
one small way for us to encourage a few small-scale alternative energy
projects.

The question is, does the bumper sticker scheme somehow detract from
national efforts to raise CAFÉ standards or implement other broad
conservation policies?

--Jenny

Jennifer Gitlitz
Research Director, Container Recycling Institute

Home Office:
2 Pomeroy Ave.
Dalton, MA 01226
Tel. (413) 684-4746
Mobile: (413) 822-0115
Fax: (413) 403-0233
Email: jgitlitz@no.address

Please note the new address for CRI¹s main office:
Container Recycling Institute
1601 North Kent St., Suite 803
Arlington, VA 22209-2105
Tel. (703) 276-9800
Fax: (703) 276-9587
www.container-recycling.org
www.bottlebill.org


On 4/12/05 1:34 PM, Peter Anderson at anderson@no.address wrote:

> GLOBE AND MAIL
>
> Honk If You Love Your SUV
>
> Pricey bumper stickers give the owners of gas-guzzlers licence to drive,
> while still being friendly to the environment
> By WILLIAM LIN
> Saturday, April 9, 2005 Page A15
>
>
> WASHINGTON -- The United States may have withdrawn from the Kyoto
Protocol,
> but a Pennsylvania company says Americans can still fight carbon dioxide
> emissions without leaving home -- by paying as much as $80 for a bumper
> sticker.
> Benven LLC, run by a team of University of Pennsylvania graduate students,
> boasts that its bumper stickers take the equivalent of 350 cars off the
road
> for a year. Its product, the TerraPass, allows drivers to counteract their
> gas-guzzling cars' emissions by paying for clean-energy projects. In
> exchange, vehicle owners get a clean conscience and a one-year pass for
> their bumper that identifies the vehicle as pollution-free.
> "If you think of the rest of Americans, they want to be nice to the
> environment. But they want a vehicle to get around in," said Tom Arnold,
the
> company's chief operating officer. "With TerraPass, you can keep driving
the
> car and still be responsible."
> The passes sell for $30 to $80, depending on how much gas the vehicle
uses.
> For instance, it would take $80 to offset a Hummer's annual emissions, Mr.
> Arnold said.
> TerraPass pools the sales and funds clean-energy projects, such as
windmills
> in California and cow-manure digesters to control methane emissions. The
> Philadelphia-based company said that to date, it has "erased" 1.8 million
> kilograms of carbon dioxide emissions.
> TerraPass also buys credits on the Chicago Climate Exchange, a market for
> trading greenhouse-gas-emissions credits. TerraPass buys and retires them,
> helping to cover the costs of energy projects.
> About 450,000 kilograms of carbon dioxide credits have been purchased so
> far -- nearly $1,200 worth, the company said. Mr. Arnold said the company
> has spent more than $7,000 on emission-reduction projects in total.
> "...
> "...
> "...
> "...
>
>
> _________________________
> Peter Anderson, President
> RECYCLEWORLDS CONSULTING
> 4513 Vernon Blvd. Suite 15
> Madison, WI 53705-4964
> Ph: (608) 231-1100
> Fax: (608) 233-0011
> Cell: (608) 698-1314
> eMail: anderson@no.address
> web: www.recycleworlds.net
>
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