RE: [greenyes] Sticker Shock

["Linda Smith" <linda@no.address>]

This sticker system is not the same as other trading systems because there is no cap on total emissions and therefore no incentive for "SUV drivers" to purchasing carbon credits from "Prius drivers" and there is no overall reduction of emissions.

Linda Smith
Eco-Cycle

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Steve Bloom" <spbloom@no.address>
Date:  Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:46:13 -0700

>Let me propose a theorem and two proofs:
>	The Pavley theorem:  The only good way to actually reduce carbon is to do it directly.
>	First proof:  The only way to comply with the Pavley law is to actually reduce carbon
>emissions.  Resistance by Hummer enthusiasts such as our Governator will only result in a
>further reduction of choices for the Hummer (and other large SUV) addicts since the carbon
>reductions are measured fleet-wide.  Eventually, it is their very love that will cause the
>extinction of their beloved.
>	Second proof:  Any carbon reduction that will actually mean anything will be sued, rather
>than endorsed or promoted, by the carbon emitters.
>	-- Steve Bloom
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: richard@no.address [mailto:richard@no.address]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:55 PM
>> To: Eric Lombardi; 'Jenny Gitlitz'; 'greenyes'
>> Cc: 'Peter Anderson'
>> Subject: Re: [greenyes] Sticker Shock
>>
>>
>> OR,
>> Isn't CT just another phrase for 'NOT taking responsibility for your own
>> actions?'
>> Is it OK for me to change the oil in my car and dump the oil into a local
>> creek if I buy one of these bumper stickers?
>> No one needs to be driving a Hummer on city streets.  Lets be real, gas
>> guzzlers harm the environment needlessly.
>> And, none of these discussions include the added cost of using three times
>> as much steel to make the hulk in the first place.  Or the added wear on the
>> roadways, or the problems they cause in parking lots where they rarely fit
>> into one space, OR ... [enough - if I don't quit now, I'll be knocked off my
>> soapbox, and someone will try to wash my mouth out instead].
>>
>> Richard Gertman
>> Environmental Planning Consultants
>> A Green Business
>> 1885 The Alameda, Suite 120
>> San Jose, CA 95126-1732
>> 408-249-0691
>> richard@no.address
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Eric Lombardi" <eric@no.address>
>> To: "'Jenny Gitlitz'" <jenny.gitlitz@no.address>; "'greenyes'"
>> <greenyes@no.address>
>> Cc: "'Peter Anderson'" <anderson@no.address>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:09 PM
>> Subject: RE: [greenyes] Sticker Shock
>>
>>
>> Jenny,
>>
>> That's what my first thought was ... it's just a carbon-trading (CT) scheme
>> for individuals, similar in many ways to allowing the dirty power plants to
>> keep on running.  If it's good for them, why not us?  Then again, some
>> people think carbon-trading isn't good.  I guess I would say that CT is OK
>> only if it's used as a "bridge" that allows sunk investments to recovered
>> and requires a timeline for old tech to retire and new tech to come on-line.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> Eric Lombardi
>> Executive Director
>> Eco-Cycle Inc
>> 303-444-6634
>> www.ecocycle.org
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jenny Gitlitz [mailto:jenny.gitlitz@no.address]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:49 PM
>> To: greenyes
>> Cc: Peter Anderson
>> Subject: Re: [greenyes] Sticker Shock
>>
>> How is this any different from other GHG market trading mechanisms? That it
>> targets the wallets of individual drivers instead of corporate power plant
>> coffers?
>>
>> Yes, it sounds ridiculous for Hummer owners to buy these stickers to appease
>> their guzzling guilt, but for many of us who are stuck driving 10-year old
>> cars because we can't afford the $22,000 sticker price of a Toyota
>> Prius--much as we'd like to buy one--this low-cost sticker program might be
>> one small way for us to encourage a few small-scale alternative energy
>> projects.
>>
>> The question is, does the bumper sticker scheme somehow detract from
>> national efforts to raise CAFÉ standards or implement other broad
>> conservation policies?
>>
>> --Jenny
>>
>> Jennifer Gitlitz
>> Research Director, Container Recycling Institute
>>
>> Home Office:
>> 2 Pomeroy Ave.
>> Dalton, MA 01226
>> Tel. (413) 684-4746
>> Mobile: (413) 822-0115
>> Fax: (413) 403-0233
>> Email: jgitlitz@no.address
>>
>> Please note the new address for CRI¹s main office:
>> Container Recycling Institute
>> 1601 North Kent St., Suite 803
>> Arlington, VA 22209-2105
>> Tel. (703) 276-9800
>> Fax: (703) 276-9587
>> www.container-recycling.org
>> www.bottlebill.org
>>
>>
>> On 4/12/05 1:34 PM, Peter Anderson at anderson@no.address wrote:
>>
>> > GLOBE AND MAIL
>> >
>> > Honk If You Love Your SUV
>> >
>> > Pricey bumper stickers give the owners of gas-guzzlers licence to drive,
>> > while still being friendly to the environment
>> > By WILLIAM LIN
>> > Saturday, April 9, 2005 Page A15
>> >
>> >
>> > WASHINGTON -- The United States may have withdrawn from the Kyoto
>> Protocol,
>> > but a Pennsylvania company says Americans can still fight carbon dioxide
>> > emissions without leaving home -- by paying as much as $80 for a bumper
>> > sticker.
>> > Benven LLC, run by a team of University of Pennsylvania graduate students,
>> > boasts that its bumper stickers take the equivalent of 350 cars off the
>> road
>> > for a year. Its product, the TerraPass, allows drivers to counteract their
>> > gas-guzzling cars' emissions by paying for clean-energy projects. In
>> > exchange, vehicle owners get a clean conscience and a one-year pass for
>> > their bumper that identifies the vehicle as pollution-free.
>> > "If you think of the rest of Americans, they want to be nice to the
>> > environment. But they want a vehicle to get around in," said Tom Arnold,
>> the
>> > company's chief operating officer. "With TerraPass, you can keep driving
>> the
>> > car and still be responsible."
>> > The passes sell for $30 to $80, depending on how much gas the vehicle
>> uses.
>> > For instance, it would take $80 to offset a Hummer's annual emissions, Mr.
>> > Arnold said.
>> > TerraPass pools the sales and funds clean-energy projects, such as
>> windmills
>> > in California and cow-manure digesters to control methane emissions. The
>> > Philadelphia-based company said that to date, it has "erased" 1.8 million
>> > kilograms of carbon dioxide emissions.
>> > TerraPass also buys credits on the Chicago Climate Exchange, a market for
>> > trading greenhouse-gas-emissions credits. TerraPass buys and retires them,
>> > helping to cover the costs of energy projects.
>> > About 450,000 kilograms of carbon dioxide credits have been purchased so
>> > far -- nearly $1,200 worth, the company said. Mr. Arnold said the company
>> > has spent more than $7,000 on emission-reduction projects in total.
>> > "...
>> > "...
>> > "...
>> > "...
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________
>> > Peter Anderson, President
>> > RECYCLEWORLDS CONSULTING
>> > 4513 Vernon Blvd. Suite 15
>> > Madison, WI 53705-4964
>> > Ph: (608) 231-1100
>> > Fax: (608) 233-0011
>> > Cell: (608) 698-1314
>> > eMail: anderson@no.address
>> > web: www.recycleworlds.net
>> >
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>> > This message is CONFIDENTIAL. If you are
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>> > and then delete it.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>





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