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RE: [greenyes] "Should Congress pass a national deposit law?"


i didn't suggest "wrong"; i suggested "unintended consequences" -- i wasn't aware that bottle-bill planners had that in mind when redemption systems were created...

and, as i suggested, both systems do have value, but so do localized approaches....

as i hear it, the beauty of the deposit system -- as originally intended -- was for litter prevention, and while it still serves that purpose, it's also enabled many municipalities to forego recycling systems that include public space recycling....


________________________________

From: Pat Franklin [mailto:pfranklin@no.address]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 2:14 PM
To: Kendall Christiansen; Green Yes
Subject: RE: [greenyes] "Should Congress pass a national deposit law?"


Is there something wrong with street people benefiting from a system that rewards the redeemer of a deposit container. If the value of deposits on one-way containers had increased with inflation, as the refillable beer and soda bottles did (they started at a penny and by the time refillable soda bottles were taken off the market the deposit had increased to a dime) consumers would be returning the cans and bottles themselves. Legislators have failed to amend the laws to increase the deposit value so fewer and fewer consumers are incentivized to take their containers back. But the beauty of the deposit system is that there will always be someone for whom a nickel (or 4 cents in the case of CA) is enough of an incentive to pick the container up and take it back for the redemption value.

Both systems have value and are not mutually exclusive.


-----Original Message-----
From: Kendall Christiansen [mailto:KChristiansen@no.address]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 2:06 PM
To: Pat Franklin; RicAnthony@no.address
Subject: RE: [greenyes] "Should Congress pass a national deposit law?"


all of which means a cookie-cutter/one size fits all concept/system needs local tailoring....conceptual dilemma is that curbside and redemption programs/systems were layered on top of or parallel to each other, and not effectively integrated/rationalized....so public messages get confused, unintended consequences magnified (including it turning into an underground jobs program for street-people), and systems aren't optimized....much of the "rebuttal" arguments with respect to redemption vs. curbside are themselves rebuttable opinions....one of these years maybe it'll be time for less posturing and more constructive thinking...


________________________________

From: Pat Franklin [mailto:pfranklin@no.address]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 1:59 PM
To: RicAnthony@no.address; Green Yes
Subject: RE: [greenyes] "Should Congress pass a national deposit law?"


Capturing beverage cans and bottles through a curbside program is one vehicle, but only if you have curbside. About 40% of the US population does NOT have access to curbside program. I don't know what the estimate is for the percent of folks who have access to curbside and take advantage of it, but it's probably under 80% on average. But even in cities, counties and towns where the public does have access to curbside recycling, a large percentage of beverage containers are being drained away from home, where collection programs are few and far between.



-----Original Message-----
From: RicAnthony@no.address [mailto:RicAnthony@no.address]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 1:51 PM
To: greenyes@no.address
Subject: Re: [greenyes] "Should Congress pass a national deposit law?"


In a message dated 3/4/2005 10:39:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, cmccoy@no.address writes:Well, someone for example said they wanted to say that curbside recycling programs are a better way to capture containers for recycling.

Probably true and in California the deposit on the containers make the capturing of these containers at the curb profitable. The deposit also makes it more cost effective to collect containers away from home.

The current salvage prices do not represent the actual cost to recover, although history, time and population growth seems to be changing that as well.
Ricanthony@no.address
RichardAnthonyAssociates.com
San Diego, California




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