Re: [GreenYes] Fw: QUERY: What to do with used tires? [Q from Bra zil]

["Mike Morrow" <mmorrow@together.net>]

Hunh??   What do I do with my 20,000 tires a year that I have to move now?
In case you haven't noticed there is no tire to tire technology.  In this
venue the perfect is the enemy of the good!!


Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Helen Spiegelman" <hspie@telus.net>
To: <hspie@telus.net>
Cc: <greenyes@grrn.org>; <zerowaste@grrn.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 2:08 PM
Subject: RE: [GreenYes] Fw: QUERY: What to do with used tires? [Q from Bra
zil]


> With all due respect, gentlemen, you have missed Muna's point:
>
> a simple energy balance
>  > will
>  > show that
>  > > "energy from waste" is simply another way of avoiding the issue in
the
>  > first place -
>  > > that of re-use or avoidance...
>
> Mike and Jay are taking us down a road that answers the questions 'how do
> we get rid of old tires' and 'how do we find the energy to create
concrete'
> -- but that road, arguably, leads us away from the more important
question:
> 'how do we get to sustainability'.
>
> H.
>
>
>
>
> At 11:51 AM 02/28/2002 -0500, Jay Donnaway wrote:
> >Exactly, Mike
> >
> >Burning whole tires in a cement kiln is a much better option than mining
> >coal to fuel the kiln.  The Bavarian State Institute for Environmental
> >Protection (Germany)agrees, and concluded that the best means of
disposing
> >of waste tires is to use them to tuel cement kilns.  In order to make
good
> >cement, kilns much reach 1500 to 1600 degrees Centigrade, which is much
> >hotter than required for adequate breakdown of hazardous chemicals.
> >Hazwaste incinerators, on the other hand, know that higher temperatures
make
> >for shorter equipment life, so they are incentivized to burn at the
lowest
> >temp they can get away with.  This is a great example that sometimes,
energy
> >recovery from waste is most appropriate.
> >
> >Jay Donnaway
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mike Morrow [SMTP:mmorrow@together.net]
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:30 AM
> > > To:   muna@iafrica.com; mfurtado@dialb.greenpeace.org; Doug Koplow
> > > Cc:   greenyes@grrn.org; zerowaste@grrn.org
> > > Subject:      Re: [GreenYes] Fw: QUERY: What to do with used tires? [Q
> > > from Brazil]
> > >
> > > You seem to have missed  the guys point here.  Making cement is a
chemical
> > > process where "contaminants" are incorporated in the final product.
We
> > > have
> > > lots of examples here of fly ash and some bottom ash being easily
> > > incorporated in cement because of the properties of ash.
> > >
> > > Seems to me that using tires as part of cements fuel mix is a better
> > > option
> > > than mining more coal to make the same cement.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > From: <muna@iafrica.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 26 Feb 2002 at 14:36, Doug Koplow wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Marcelo,
> > > > >
> > > > > Your inquiry regarding tires was posted to the Green Yes
Listserve, of
> > > > > which I am a member.  I looked at waste tires in relation to work
I
> > > > > did for the US EPA on hazardous waste combustion in cement kilns
some
> > > > > years ago.  Based on this work, I concluded that disposal of whole
> > > > > waste tires (which are not considered hazardous waste) in cement
kilns
> > > > > is actually a very good solution.
> > > > >
> > > > > The extremely high temperatures in the kiln, combined with long
> > > > > retention times in the burner, lead to very clean combustion, and
> > > > > nearly every region of the world has them.  Combustion in kilns
does
> > > > > not generate the black smoke that one sees when tires are burned
in
> > > > > open pits.  The metals found in the waste tires (either through
steel
> > > > > belts or through additives to improve braking, wear, etc.) are
mostly
> > > > > entrained in the cement clinker, and generally not released to the
> > > > > air.
> > > > >
> > > > Sorry to say, that I do not agree with Doug - we have found that
waste
> > > incineration
> > > > has no positive spinoffs at all, and simply transfers the problem
from
> > > solid waste to
> > > > mainly air pollution, the creation of highly toxic bottom ash, and
the
> > > actual loss of the
> > > > resource and energy used in its manufacture - a simple energy
balance
> > > will
> > > show that
> > > > "energy from waste" is simply another way of avoiding the issue in
the
> > > first place -
> > > > that of re-use or avoidance...
> > > >
> > > > the chemicals that are liberated in burning, as well as the heavy
> > > metals,
> > > etc. cause a
> > > > much more serious problem than the one Marcello is trying to solve -
we
> > > are very
> > > > sensitive here regarding eco-justice, and can say very clearly that
the
> > > burning of ANY
> > > > waste is no solution, especially not for the people in our
country... or
> > > indeed,
> > > > anywhere else...
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > > Muna
> > > >
> > >
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