RE: greenyes-d Digest V01 #101

[Anne Morse <AMorse@NT1.Co.Winona.MN.US>]

Sorry to disagree with you Chris, but what David Orr said about AF & P, and
secondarily about Chris wasn't even close to character assasination.
Hyperbole helps nothing at all here.  Quite to the contrary, I believe
David's point is exactly what this list-serve is all about.

What I think David was reacting to is the very real and insidious strategy
corporations use to good advantage of putting a sweet face/front on their
presentation.  In this case, it's putting a recycling advocate front and
center.  If we are to get anywhere, however, we've got to look deeply at
what those corporations do, and not what they say.  And I know you know
this.  

Anne Morse

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Cloutier, Chris [SMTP:chris.cloutier@moea.state.mn.us]
> Sent:	Tuesday, April 03, 2001 2:20 PM
> To:	multiple recipients of
> Subject:	RE: greenyes-d Digest V01 #101
> 
> Frank does a much nicer job than me of saying that sort of near
> character-assination really has no place on this list-serve.
> 
> Using David's logic, he should soon be renouncing his US citizenship b/c
> the US gov't is at least as environmentally damaging as the members of the
> AF&PA. Doesn't the same ethical conundrum (read: strawman) apply?
> 
> > ----------
> > From: 	Frank Nickerson[SMTP:fn1999@erols.com]
> > Reply To: 	fn1999@erols.com
> > Sent: 	Tuesday, April 03, 2001 2:06 PM
> > To: 	multiple recipients of
> > Subject: 	Re: greenyes-d Digest V01 #101
> > 
> > I do know Christine McCoy - I have known her for about 2 years and have
> read her posts on my local community listserv for at least that long.
> > 
> > Christine is my neighbor and she makes a huge personal commitment and
> sacrifice for the environment.  This is the third year in a row that she
> has personally spearheaded through her force of personality an Earthday
> project to clean-up my neighborhood.  Many who know her would say she does
> more for the neighborhood and the environment than anyone else they know,
> hands down. She does not own a car, but walks, rides her bike, or uses
> public transportation.
> > 
> > I can not recall where Christine worked prior to AF&PA, but she took
> this job since I met her.  I think she finds it a challenge and an
> opportunity to lead and be a change agent in an organization that does not
> always have the best reputation in environmental social circles.  In her
> position at AF&AP she has the opportunity to change minds where many
> decisions about the environment are made.  I can't say she would always be
> successful in her efforts (who is?), but I can not fathom Christine being
> rolled by anyone.  She is polite, but speaks her mind.  She takes action.
> I am sure her employers know she is an environmentalist.
> > 
> > Frank Nickerson
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 14:43:45 EDT 
> > From: DavidOrr@aol.com 
> > To: greenyes@earthsystems.org 
> > Subject: [GRRN] AF&PA 
> > Message-ID: <37.12f71f61.27fa2261@aol.com> 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" 
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
> > 
> > On 4/2/01 9:51 AM, Christine_McCoy@afandpa.org 
> > Christine_McCoy@afandpa.org wrote: 
> > 
> > >In the meantime, you may want to check out 
> > >our website for general information on paper and wood recycling. 
> > 
> > 
> > While I don't know Ms. McCoy, nor do I have any reason to doubt her 
> > sincerity on a personal level, I would strongly caution all subscribers 
> > to this list that the American Forest & Paper Association is the timber 
> > industry's mouthpiece and a major obstructive force against forest 
> > protection efforts in this country and abroad. To the extent they 
> > promote paper and wood recycling, it is as a defensive measure, i.e., to
> 
> > be able to defend against charges that they prefer to cut down trees to 
> > promote recycling. 
> > 
> > If the AF&PA and its member companies cared about recycling, we would 
> > have a lot more post-consumer waste recycling in this country. For 
> > example, it was back in the early days of the Clinton Administration
> when 
> > the white house proposed a minimum PCW content rule for the Government 
> > Printing Office. Who shot that down? The AF&PA and some of its biggest 
> > member companies. 
> > 
> > So take what they tell you with a block of salt. I won't be checking 
> > their website for any information, other than to see what sort of 
> > self-serving propaganda the timber industry puts out on a given day or
> on 
> > a given topic. 
> > 
> > Good luck to Ms. McCoy in her job. It is a serious ethical challenge for
> 
> > an environmentalist to work for the world's biggest advocate for forest 
> > destruction. 
> > 
> > David Orr 
> > 
> > 
> >
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _
> > Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications
> center.
> > Visto.com. Life on the Dot.
> > 
> > 
> > *****************************************************
> >     To post to the greenyes list, send a letter to:> 
> > greenyes@earthsystems.org
> >     To unsubscribe, send a message to:
> > greenyes-request@earthsystems.org with the subject
> > unsubscribe.  If you have any problems, please
> > write to www@earthsystems.org.
> >     The GreenYes Listserv depends on reader support.
> > Your tax-deductible contribution in any amount can be
> > made by mail (check) or on the web (credit card) at
> > our website: http://www.grrn.org. Just click on the
> > "Support GRRN" button.
> >     GreenYes is archived at our website. Just click
> > on the "GreenYes Listserv" button for directions.
> > ******************************************************
> > 
> 
> 
> *****************************************************
>     To post to the greenyes list, send a letter to:
> greenyes@earthsystems.org
>     To unsubscribe, send a message to:
> greenyes-request@earthsystems.org with the subject
> unsubscribe.  If you have any problems, please
> write to www@earthsystems.org.
>     The GreenYes Listserv depends on reader support.
> Your tax-deductible contribution in any amount can be
> made by mail (check) or on the web (credit card) at
> our website: http://www.grrn.org. Just click on the
> "Support GRRN" button.
>     GreenYes is archived at our website. Just click
> on the "GreenYes Listserv" button for directions.
> ******************************************************


*****************************************************
    To post to the greenyes list, send a letter to:
greenyes@earthsystems.org
    To unsubscribe, send a message to:
greenyes-request@earthsystems.org with the subject
unsubscribe.  If you have any problems, please
write to www@earthsystems.org.
    The GreenYes Listserv depends on reader support.
Your tax-deductible contribution in any amount can be
made by mail (check) or on the web (credit card) at
our website: http://www.grrn.org. Just click on the
"Support GRRN" button.
    GreenYes is archived at our website. Just click
on the "GreenYes Listserv" button for directions.
******************************************************