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>We need a convenient, creative collection system with three bins: one for biodegradables, which we’ll compost, one for recycling, and one for >whatever’s left.” I think we need more than three. And to reiterate, we need to deal with the problems of packaging at the front end, that which produces a myriad of waste streams that I sincerely doubt can be dealt with by a co-mingling scheme. Workin for peace and cooperation, Mike Morin ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Cotton To: pfranklin@no.address Cc: David Schellinger ; Alex Cuyler ; Greenyes List ; Eric Lombardi ; Mike Morin Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [GreenYes] Re: Biodegradable "Plastics" Distinction Pat (and others) - Just to be clear, I love bottle bills, I'm all for them. I am lucky enough to live in CA where we have added lots (though not nearly enough) "new" containers (though there are more that should be added). The introduction of truly biodegradable/compostable "plastics" made from entirely organic materials (not with little bits of plastic) has added a new dimension to "discard management/solid waste management/recycling". As I go around this large country educating folks about composting, I often encourage people to learn more about biodegradable "plastics" (we really need to come up with a better term). I think biodegradables are a great new tool to help facilitate the collection and composting and beneficial use of the millions of tons of food scraps we otherwise entomb in landfills. I wasn't focussing on containers. The bottom line is we need more facilities for food scraps composting. The use of truly biodegradable plastics as replacements for some otherwise difficult or unlikely to recycle materials seems like a good interim step. Once the revolution comes, we can all enjoy durable, truly sustainable items of commerce made from local organically grown crops using local, union and women friendly cooperatives, all while actually improving the environmental condition of the planet. Until then, the majority of "plastics" as a whole, as a 1-through-disingenuous-7 chasing arrows category, gets landfilled. So by all means, let's enact a national bottle bill with all of the containers. But I'd still want and see a need for compostable utensils. And that's just one pretty good application. Clearly our nation (and many others) see a need for fast food, single use convenience. Until we figure out a way to provide that while minimizing its impact (and while were at it, let's make the food part healthier and taste better), we're going to get mountains of plastics, mixed with food that need to be landfilled. As a start, those mountains of food and its serving devices could be composted and at least returned to the soil. Let me close with a quick opinion from my friend Eric: (FYI, PLA is one type of compostable "plastic-like" material made entirely from corn) "Eric Lombardi, president of the Grassroots Recycling Network and a leader in the international Zero Waste movement, takes a nuanced view of PLA’s progress. He says it’s “visionary” even to think about biologically based plastic instead of a petroleum-based one. True, he says, there are problems with PLA, “but let’s not kill the good in pursuit of the perfect.” He suggests that the difficulty disposing of PLA reflects a larger deficiency in how we handle trash. He’s calling for a composting revolution. “We need a convenient, creative collection system with three bins: one for biodegradables, which we’ll compost, one for recycling, and one for whatever’s left.” Amen. Matthew Cotton Integrated Waste Management Consulting, LLC 19375 Lake City Road Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 265-4560 Fax (530) 265-4547 mattcotton@no.address On Sep 22, 2006, at 9:27 AM, Pat Franklin wrote: All.... Matthew made the comment that only "a few sates" have bottle bills. That's true. Only 11 states have enacted laws requiring small, refundable deposits on beverage containers, but 28% of the US population lives in those 11 states. According to a 2002 multi-stakeholder report titled "Understanding Beverage Container Recycling: A Value Chain Assessment" the 11 deposit states recycle 2 1/2 times as many beverage containers per capita as the non-deposit states. Many of these states are considering updating their laws to include non-carbonated beverages that didn't exist when the laws were passed. California and Hawaii already include noncarabonated drinks and Maine's law covers all beverage bottles and cans except milk. In 2006, more than 136 billion beverage bottles and cans will not be recycled. Nationwide, that’s about 459 per capita—up from 300 per capita just a decade ago, and this trend of increased wasting is expected to continue. More than half of the 99 billion aluminum beverage cans purchased last year were NOT recycled. Replacing trashed cans and bottles with new containers made from virgin materials comes at great environmental cost. There are economic consequences as well. Recycling companies, container manufacturers and end users cannot get the used cans and bottles they need as feedstocks to make new containers and other consumer products. If you want to know more about bottle bills please visit CRI's Bottle Bill Resource Guide at www.bottlebill.org. You might also want to visit our other website www.container-recycling.org and check out our "bottle counter" which gives a running total of the beverage containers trashed in 2006. The counter will reach 100 billion bottles and cans NOT recycled so far this year at around noon tomorrow. Regards, Pat Franklin **************************************** Patricia Franklin Executive Director Container Recycling Institute 1776 Massachusetts Avenue, NW, Suite 800 Washington, D.C. 20036-1904 Tel.(202) 263-0999 Fax: (202) 263-0949 www.container-recycling.org and www.bottlebill.org -----Original Message----- From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address]On Behalf Of Matthew Cotton Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 5:11 PM To: Mike Morin; David Schellinger Cc: Alex Cuyler; Greenyes List Subject: [GreenYes] Biodegradable "Plastics" Distinction David (and Mike): I just wanted to clarify that there is a significant difference between the (essentially two) categories of materials which are unfortunately both referred to as "biodegradable plastic". One type (apparently the one David has been working with) is a (petroleum based) plastic material held together by a degradable polymer (usually some type of starch). The plastic in these products does not "biodegrade". The starch breaks down and the plastic is no longer held together, but it's still plastic. The other type is truly biodegradable, made only of organic materials, and will biodegrade completely into sugars and starches. I have seen some of these materials and how they compost in a well-operated commercial composting facility. I am also aware of an ASTM standard used to measure a material's ability to biodegrade (ASTM D6400, etc). While, in theory, I agree we should not encourage single-use containers, utensils, etc, and we should encourage and promote the use of durable goods. In the meantime however, is it better to put all of the myriad plastics in the landfill or try to substitute them with something that can be composted? (Some biodegradable plastics, like those made from Natureworks PLA can be made to be very durable and re-usable. I carried one of their very durable, corn-based cups around a major out-of-town solid waste conference most of this week). And while it may be interesting to conceive of a "bottle bill" for packaging, let's remember how few states even have a "bottle bill" for bottles (or cans). :> ) Matthew Cotton Integrated Waste Management Consulting, LLC 19375 Lake City Road Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 265-4560 Fax (530) 265-4547 mattcotton@no.address On Sep 21, 2006, at 1:42 PM, Mike Morin wrote: I agree with thee about the fallacy of "biodegradable plastics". Even if such existed, would it not leach into drinks. I disagree with regards to your advocacy of paper products as a replacement. Remember the mantra is reduce, reuse, recycle. In that order. People should be strongly encouraged to buy and carry reusable containers. Perhaps what we need is an extended "bottle bill" on all packaging to cover the external costs relative to disposal costs and health issues. Such a legislative package would discourage the use of current wasteful, short-sighted and special interest packaging and also reduce or eliminate the production and distribution of toxic substances such as alcohol, "soft drinks" (which could alternatively be used as ethanol?) Also legislation could be passed that encourages the standardization/simplification of packaging technologies (i.e. the front end) so that there is not such a myriad of rubbish (and garbage) to be processed for recycling and/or disposal. Which brings me to the issue of co-mingling. I have serious doubts about the effectiveness of such technology. Relative to source separation, such appears to be devolution foisted on a gullible and lazy and/or harried population. Although generally I favor an economic evolution rather than regulation and taxes, it appears that we have both a recalcitrant "private sector" and their lackey legislators and bureaucrats. Workin for peace and cooperation, Mike Morin ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Schellinger" <dschellinger@no.address> To: "'US Composting Council Compost Discussion List'" <compost@no.address> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [USCC] Biosolids testing report U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW Wyndham Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007 The National forum for those involved in the development and expansion of the composting and organics recycling industry CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION FORMS, WORKSHOP AGENDAS, EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES ARE AVAILABLE AT THE USCC WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL THE USCC AT 631-737-4931 Frank, I tend to dislike biodegradable plastics use in composting simply because it does not really eliminate the problem of plastics in the environment, but only disguises it. What your argument lacks is an explanation that exposes the product for what it really is. The term biodegradable plastic is a contradiction in terms that leads to a false impression about the true nature of the plastic. Biodegradable plastic is truly not biodegradable. The degradable components that link plastic strands can be degraded, but the plastic components still remain. The claim made by producers of biodegradable plastics is that heat and moisture and microbiological activity degrade the materials, but in my experience, UV light is required to degrade even the best biodegradable bags. I attempted composting biodegradable bags and found that the bags remained intact three months after being placed in the piles, and only when the composting materials were turned and the plastics exposed to the air and sunlight did I observe degradation. I guess the degradation in the environment does reduce the unsightly nature of the material which is at least some consolation. I remember when paper bags were the norm at grocery stores and paper or cardboard plates and cups were used at outdoor gatherings. Unfortunately, the paper and cardboard products did not have strength or durability and bags were often bulky. People were happy to see disposable plastic products that really did improve the quality of living for much of society. Now plastic materials are becoming a problem to society because they don't degrade very quickly, are unsightly when gathered along curbs, fences or shrubs, and can cause some ecological and environmental damage. To eliminate this problem, along comes an industry to produce so called biodegradable plastic materials (that truly do not eliminate the plastic components from the environment). Biodegradable plastics are much like an aspirin to a cold virus. The symptoms leave for a short period, but the virus remains. Wouldn't it be better to return to paper bags and cardboard containers rather than be concerned with trying to develop partially degradable plastics, complete with non-degradable components? Paper products can be made from a multitude of cellulosic materials that are in themselves potential wastes, and durability can be improved with modern biologically friendly organic adhesives. The biodegradability of a product does not ensure that the end products of that degradation are going to environmentally or ecologically friendly. Thus, biodegradable plastics only reduce a potential eye sore for society, but do not eliminate the input of potentially damaging plastic components to the environment. On the other hand, it would be silly to expect all products used by consumers to be 100% biodegradable, and the chemicals dumped down drains, even though not really environmentally friendly, are degradable, though often recalcitrant, and are usually only present in extremely low concentrations in feedstocks used for composting. When more environmentally acceptable materials are available (paper vs. plastic) use of organic instead of plastic or biodegradable plastics should be encouraged. Dave Schellinger -----Original Message----- From: compost-bounces@no.address [mailto:compost-bounces@no.address] On Behalf Of frank Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:32 AM To: US Composting Council Compost Discussion List Subject: Re: [USCC] Biosolids testing report U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW Wyndham Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007 The National forum for those involved in the development and expansion of the composting and organics recycling industry CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION FORMS, WORKSHOP AGENDAS, EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES ARE AVAILABLE AT THE USCC WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL THE USCC AT 631-737-4931 Composters The Biodegradable Plastics Test is a first of its kind, as far as I know. Producers make a claim that it is biodegradable in the composting process and then a test is developed to prove if they are correct. Plastic is mostly harmless but because we see it and it looks bad we do not want it in the compost. There are many other things going down the drain that we do see nor do we know if it breaks down under normal composting conditions. Many of these compounds found in soaps etc. we can do without. I suggest if someone wants to manufacture a product that is likely to end up in the compost that every ingredient in that product go through a testing procedure like what the biodegradable plastic industry need to do. It may seem expensive but for each compound it only needs be tested once and is then but on the biodegradable list. If something is not on the list, or fails the test, then it should not be used or special considerations should be made before it is used. Medicines could be in this group or places where the use of antibiotic soaps are most important are a couple of examples. Frank CAVM@no.address wrote: U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW Wyndham Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007 The National forum for those involved in the development and expansion of the composting and organics recycling industry CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION FORMS, WORKSHOP AGENDAS, EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES ARE AVAILABLE AT THE USCC WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL THE USCC AT 631-737-4931 _http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2006/sep/science/ nl_compos tin g.html_ (http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2006/sep/science/ nl_compos ting.html) Now that we have developed the ability to test for contaminants in the ppb we can find nearly anything we are looking for at some concentration. Neal Van Milligen _______________________________________________ Compost maillist - Compost@no.address http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council. _______________________________________________ Ongoing Sponsors of the USCC Discussion list are: Food Industry Environmental Network (FIEN), a regulatory and policy alert service for environmental, food and agricultural industry professionals. Contact Jack Cooper 301/384-8287 JLC@no.address --- www.fien.com Renewable Carbon Management, LLC with the containerized, in-vessel NaturTech Composting System www.composter.com rcm@no.address (c) Copyright 2006 United States - All rights reserved Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses will have their posting privelages suspended. No exceptions! Opinions expressed represent only the poster and are not necessarily the opinion or policy of any organization. Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through our website at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm For discussion list policies and information regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to:http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost For additional help in unsubscribing or to report bugs and problems, send a message to the List Manager, Jim McNelly, at compost-owner@no.address -- Frank Shields Soil Control Lab 42 Hangar way Watsonville, CA 95076 (831) 724-5422 tel (831) 724-3188 fax frank@no.address www.compostlab.com _______________________________________________ Compost maillist - Compost@no.address http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council. _______________________________________________ Ongoing Sponsors of the USCC Discussion list are: Food Industry Environmental Network (FIEN), a regulatory and policy alert service for environmental, food and agricultural industry professionals. Contact Jack Cooper 301/384-8287 JLC@no.address --- www.fien.com Renewable Carbon Management, LLC with the containerized, in-vessel NaturTech Composting System www.composter.com rcm@no.address (c) Copyright 2006 United States - All rights reserved Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses will have their posting privelages suspended. No exceptions! Opinions expressed represent only the poster and are not necessarily the opinion or policy of any organization. Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through our website at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm For discussion list policies and information regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to:http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost For additional help in unsubscribing or to report bugs and problems, send a message to the List Manager, Jim McNelly, at compost-owner@no.address _______________________________________________ Compost maillist - Compost@no.address http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council. _______________________________________________ Ongoing Sponsors of the USCC Discussion list are: Food Industry Environmental Network (FIEN), a regulatory and policy e-mail alert service for environmental, food and agricultural industry professionals. Contact Jack Cooper 301/384-8287 JLC@no.address --- www.fien.com Renewable Carbon Management, LLC with the containerized, in-vessel NaturTech Composting System www.composter.com rcm@no.address (c) Copyright 2006 United States - All rights reserved Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses will have their posting privelages suspended. No exceptions! Opinions expressed represent only the poster and are not necessarily the opinion or policy of any organization. Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through our website at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm For discussion list policies and information regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to:http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost For additional help in unsubscribing or to report bugs and problems, send a message to the List Manager, Jim McNelly, at compost-owner@no.address --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "GreenYes" group. To post to this group, send email to GreenYes@no.address To unsubscribe from this group, send email to GreenYes-unsubscribe@no.address For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/GreenYes -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- |
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