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[GreenYes] Re: Can you feed the stuff to the fish?


Amen to Justin's comment......furthermore, we are forgetting that the
bioplastic bottle uses petroleum....less than PET to be sure (30% less) but
what is the ratio for a recycled PET bottle? There are many other
environmental issues to be weighed besides the recyclability and
contamination issues.
-----Original Message-----
From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address]On
Behalf Of Justin Stockdale
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 12:00 PM
To: 'Matthew Cotton'; 'Pete Pasterz'
Cc: RicAnthony@no.address; stevew@no.address; gary@no.address;
crra_members@no.address; GreenYes@no.address; zwia@no.address;
ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address;
sustainablebusiness@no.address; marc.gunther@no.address;
cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address; stephanie@no.address
Subject: [GreenYes] Re: Can you feed the stuff to the fish?


I feel like I am missing something in the ongoing debate about the virtues
of PLA and other bio-plastics?is no one concerned that these plastics stand
to sanctify the production of gmo?s as environmentally preferable simply
because they fit nicely into the zero waste framework? To read recently that
the Boulder farmers market is not only proud, but touting their zero waste
status though the use of gmo products seems to me to be as contrary to the
virtues of a farmers market as possible.

I am struck that the zero waste movement is getting lost striving for the
magic zero?that they have divorced their movement from all other aspects of
environmental responsibility? Just because it is compostable does not make a
starlink knife a good thing.



And please do not forget that recycling, composting and the lot is still
waste, if you have it to be recycled you have still generated waste....



Justin Stockdale

Buckman Road Recycling & Transfer Station

149 Wildlife Way

Santa Fe, NM 87506

505-424-1850

jstockdale@no.address

Save your local landfill...Recycle




----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address] On
Behalf Of Matthew Cotton
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:06 PM
To: Pete Pasterz
Cc: RicAnthony@no.address; stevew@no.address; gary@no.address;
crra_members@no.address; GreenYes@no.address; zwia@no.address;
ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address;
sustainablebusiness@no.address; marc.gunther@no.address;
cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address; stephanie@no.address
Subject: [GreenYes] Can you feed the stuff to the fish?



Rick (et al) -



I agree that the introduction of biodegradable "stuff" brings up issues,
both new and existing. I guess the question is: Does the introduction of PLA
(or other compostable stuff) necessarily lead to more litter or more plastic
in the environment? We have a massive litter problem now, but I don't see
how the introduction of compostable stuff increases this problem.



Yes, we have a lot of education to do. I just had a quick lunch of an
Annie Chun "instant" noodle bowl. It came in a "biodegradable" container,
which is cool. But there is no information on the package or on their
website about what to do with this. Should I put it in my home composting
bin? (probably). Should I try to get it to a composting facility that takes
food scraps and biod egradable stuff? How is a consumer supposed to know
what to do with it? Is this just furthering the myth that eventually all
things will decompose in the landfill?



As you know, I was on the panel at NRC that discussed some of these
issues. I wish I had had a chance to bring up the concept of MOOP (Matter
Out of Place). Probably a good concept to think about. Along the road to
zero waste we've got to focus on the MOOP. All of the plastic in the
environment is MOOP. The way to fix this is to provide the education and the
infrastructure to get the Matter into the right place (as for example,
Eco-Cycle is doing with their Center for Hard to Recycle Materials, why
aren't there more of these?).



Replacing some or all of the food service containers and utensils with a
biodegradable alternative may ensure that at least some of it gets recovered
via composting. I ag ree wholeheartedly with Stephen's point that it would
seem that most non-bottle plastics (and I think nationally we're recycling
about 25% of those?), in most places, don't get recycled, so either end up
in a landfill, in an incinerator, or in the environment. So to the extent
that we can replace these non-recyclable items with compostable ones, we can
hope to recover at least some of them and hopefully recover some of the
wasted food that is also landfilled along with them.



Matthew Cotton

Integrated Waste Management Consulting, LLC

19375 Lake City Road

Nevada City, CA 95959

530-265-4560

mattcotton@no.address









On Nov 2, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Pete Pasterz wrote:





Especially after the NRC presentation during which the NatureWorks rep.
stated that PLA will NOT decompose as litter on the roadside or in water;
only in a compost pile of 150 degrees!



Pete Pasterz




----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

From: GreenYes@no.address [mailto:GreenYes@no.address] On
Behalf Of RicAnthony@no.address
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 3:12 PM
To: stevew@no.address; gary@no.address; crra
_members@no.address; GreenYes@no.address; zwia@no.address;
ZERI_Practitioners@no.address; ZERI-US@no.address;
sustainablebusiness@no.address
Cc: marc.gunther@no.address; cmoore@no.address; mgordon@no.address;
stephanie@no.address
Subject: [heur] [GreenYes] Can you feed the stuff to the fish?
Importance: Low

In a message dated 11/2/2006 12:06:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
stevew@no.address writes:think bio-plastic bottles are a great idea
except the "recycling problem" is definitely a concern.....shoul d
definitely support other bio-plastic products such as cups, and foodservice
containers.



I worry about all the food service containers and utensils that are dumped
into the environment becoming fish and bird food before totally decomposed.

Rick


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