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[GreenYes] Re: Good by Green Yes.. current ideas and proposals for recycles are obsolete

Mr. Wheeler-

I for one do not have a problem with you putting your two-cents worth into
the GreenYes list and have found the issues you bring up, and the points
others make in rebuttal, to be important, sincere, and inquiring. Internet
communication is clearly not perfect, and folks often tend to a bit
amplified in their perspectives at times. So I will feel that this listserve
is failing if the goal is to provide a forum for the free exchange of ideas
and knowledge, except for those who we do not agree with.

As regards the branding of plasma arc technologies as ³incineration,² I for
one often feel that when arguments get down to semantics, both ³sides² have
ceased attempting to understand each other and perhaps it is time to take a
³walk² and get some fresh air and do some careful thinking.

Personally, my problem with how the solid waste management system in this
country is thought through is that policy is either doled out piecemeal in a
rather willy-nilly fashion and then rarely implemented properly, or that
folks believe they have technologies and systems that can solve everything.
I¹ve seen both of these points of view work to stunt and mutate very
competent business models and recycling companies over the years. Waste
reduction, waste system design, and standard recycling programs for paper
products, many organics, and the bulk of food and beverage containers are
proven both economically and environmentally. Any waste conversion system
that does not focus on these measures first to fully realize their potential
as economic development tools and as effective, sustainable long-term
management systems for urban centers (at least) around the country, will
very likely meet with a great deal of opposition?and will very likely be
proven economically disadvantageous in the long run. Most of us are
attempting to flip the paradigm for waste (you included), and we have many
different ideas and solutions.

In your case, what I find fascinating in all the exchanges that have taken
place is the unstated problem that ³new² technologies create for the status
quo. I already made it clear in a number of posts a few weeks ago that it
was necessary to perform and make available a host of due diligence type
analytical exercises for plasma arc economics, energy flows, and
environmental emissions. As I recall, most of the information I want is
deemed ³confidential.² I don¹t know how else I could respond except to say
that there is nothing further to talk about here and I wish all those
investing $425 million in said project luck. What I did not say was that
this all made me wonder about the simple idea that a new technology might
come along and render all the work those of us have been doing in Zero Waste
and urban recycling completely inconsequential. Let¹s say someone comes up
with a way to make an aggregate material out of raw, mixed solid waste that
can be used as a substitute for everything from plastic to lumber to steel
in every and any application?material that has an enormous pre-market value
and that would be economically viable within five years. Also, for the sake
of argument, let¹s say the energy input and the economics would be such that
the material that came out had a 4:1 value. That would be phenomenal,
wouldn¹t it? But human nature being as it is, especially with us
curmudgeonly recyclers (many of us quite set in our ways and far too
emotional in our opinions than perhaps we should be), my guess is that you¹d
hear a howl of protest everywhere. And, quite frankly, for good reason,
since we¹ve all heard this kind of thinking and entertained entrepreneurs
from all over the world at conferences and in meeting rooms throughout the
country ever since at least the mid-1970s. And yet, this may happen some
day. It would be foolish to ignore it.

All of this is to say that I¹d rather not see you taken to task the way you
have been, but at the same time while people should probably be a bit more
open-minded, taking you to task is part of the process. With plasma arc
technology, you are most certainly not speaking about ³mass burn
incineration² or even ³fluidized bed combustion² but a new and very
high-tech, impressive form of converting mixed solid waste by introducing it
to heat. Hopefully, you will report back to us every once in a while on
where this project is. And hopefully we of Zero Waste Speak can respond
intelligently and with questions that, hopefully, you can answer. Stay tuned
at any rate. As they say in Fire Sign Theater- ³The future¹s not here yet,
man, but when it gets here it¹s going to be really fun!²

Over and out. Sorry for this long diatribe. More power to you.


David Biddle
David Biddle, Executive Director
Greater Philadelphia Commercial Recycling Council
P.O. Box 4037
Philadelphia, PA 19118

215-247-3090 (desk)
215-432-8225 (cell)


Read In Business magazine to learn about sustainable
businesses in communities across North America!
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on 9/12/06 11:49 PM, LWheeler45@no.address at LWheeler45@no.address wrote:

> Dear list . My last message
> FACT There is a synergistic patented commerical recycle technology licensed
> EPA and EU certified recycle breakthru which I have shared with some in detal
> off net and the idea generally on net that completely and totally eliminates
> all of the recycle models that this list has shown me. BAsedd upon my last
> messages I shall not bother this group with further discussion of this new
> process some of you are clearly not open to new ideas or change or want to be
> knowledgeable of physical science. A sign of old age and all are probably
> younger than me.
> When you dare call a 4 order heat inert gas disassociation process"
> incineration" you are clueless as to what you are talking about and lack
> skills to check it out in scientific peer review papers of the last 50 years.
> In short time likely in the next 15 months or so a new era of recycles
> processes will emerge wherein at site be that home or business all these
> valuable waste streams that cannot be recycled and there are many in Fla and
> some that are being recycled today will be profitably CONVERTED to elemental
> form for recycle by a cheap commerical high order heat process along the lines
> which I have described in a device which will be about the size of a large
> refrigerator .
> No landfills, no burning, no Co CO2 Nox, no toxic releases period no water
> use. And no current recycle industry waste collection, garbage disposals or
> curbside mess leachettes, gas offs or Love Canal cleanups.
> Thanks for the opportunity to let me show you it first.
> Bye
> Leonard E. Wheeler Jr
> "It is better to remain silent and be thought a
> fool than to speak and remove all doubt."
> and ....
> Grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,
> the courage to debate with honest opponents,
> and the wisdom to know the difference.
> >

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