[GreenYes] Re: Plasma in Panama... sounds like a bad movie

[Alan Muller <amuller@no.address>]

At 04:47 PM 9/21/2006 -0400, Keith Ripley wrote:
>The trouble in Latin America and the Caribbean 
>(including some of the places I have heard 
>plasma tech pitched), as in much of the 
>developing countries, there are no tipping 
>fees.  In fact, there usually are no landfills, 
>just dumps, usually open-air, with little to no 
>management.  So we?d be talking government 
>subsidies, usually from governments that can ill 
>afford to subsidize basic health care, let alone waste management.
>
>Furthermore, unless someone is pre-sorting (who? 
>And who pays them to?  How paid?  Under what 
>conditions?),  then the wastes going from one of 
>these dumps (say, for the sake of argument, 
>Duquesa in Santo Domingo, one of the places this 
>idea was pitched for), WILL have metal (unlike 
>glass, not heavily recycled in the DR), old 
>automobile batteries, car hulks, end-of-life 
>electronics, spent portable batteries, 
>infectious medical wastes (even limbs), 
>pesticides, you name it, it?s all thrown in the dump (if not in the river).
>
>What made me suspicious about these pitches is 
>that they supposedly solved all problems, at no 
>cost to government or the general public, and no 
>close environmental supervision necessary.  In 
>my experience, nothing is free and even cheap 
>wonder techs have their trade-offs.  It?s just a 
>question of discussing the trade-offs fully and 
>openly and weighing the balance of costs and 
>benefits and deciding priorities.  But so far 
>the proponents of this tech I have heard speak 
>and questioned never seem to remember a 
>trade-off to speak of.  Makes one stroke his/her 
>chin in thought and go ?hmmmm??
>
>As I said, it may be all it?s purported to 
>be.  But I still must wonder why, if it is so 
>beneficial and so cheap, are most of the 
>full-scale projects (beyond pilot and test 
>phases) announced in China and developing 
>countries like Panama?  Why not 
>California?  Massachusetts?  New 
>York?  Michigan?  Germany?  The UK?  The 
>Netherlands?  Japan?  What?s wrong with this 
>picture?  What else are we not being told?

Asi es la cosa.  Some fragments of these claims 
might be possible--which is not to say 
desirable--but the overall claims are pure hype.  Well stated here by Keith.

Alan Muller

>
>
>-----------------------------------------------
>
>Sr. Keith Edward Ripley
>
>Temas Actuales LLC
>
>telefono: 703-731-7108
>
>e-mail: keith.ripley@no.address
>
><http://www.temasactuales.com/>http://www.temasactuales.com
>
><http://www.dr1.com/blogs/?u=environment>El Equipo Verde
>
>
>
>Autor del libro "Solid Wastes and Recycling 
>Policy in Latin America & the Caribbean"
>
><http://www.temasactuales.com/temas_in_print/index_wastebookpromo.php>http://www.temasactuales.com/temas_in_print/index_wastebookpromo.php
>
>
>
>Noticias ambientales de América Latina y el 
>Caribe: 
><http://www.temasactuales.com/whats_new/index.php?page=1>http://www.temasactuales.com/whats_new/index.php?page=1
>
>Las leyes/los reglamentos ambientales de todo 
>America Latina y el Caribe: 
><http://www.temasactuales.com/laws_policies/LawDbase.php>http://www.temasactuales.com/laws_policies/LawDbase.php
>
>Perspectivas sobre la evolucion de politica 
>sobre el medio ambiente, salud publica y defensa 
>del consumidor en America Latina y el Caribe: 
><http://www.temasactuales.com/temasblog>http://www.temasactuales.com/temasblog
>
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>----------
>From: GreenYes@no.address 
>[mailto:GreenYes@no.address] On Behalf Of LWheeler45@no.address
>Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:47 PM
>To: vze3gxms@no.address; eric@no.address; GreenYes@no.address
>Subject: [GreenYes] Re: Plasma in Panama... sounds like a bad movie
>
>Your observations are fairly correct for 
>traditional high power plasma. The money comes 
>from tipping charges or government subsidy.
>
>Plasma 4th state of matter is a really 
>interesting thing. Using available technology 
>since 1950's  such as Westinghouse Plasma the 
>working area of a torch is about 16 inches MAX . 
>You need lots of torches and lots of power to 
>break down waste to gas and elements this way. 
>About 1/2 of the Syn gas produced is consumed to 
>power up the system. No electical power no plasma no work.
>
>I compare it to Edision the light bulb and DC 
>power. Works not well on the large scale.
>
>Using low volatge with a heatsink as on 
>electrical contact totally different outcome. 
>Heat of the heatsink sustains the 
>decomposition.  Each heatsink adds working area 
>of 16 in approx 8 heatsinks x 16" all in a box 
>5' 6' 3' approx. Really efficient and clean!
>
>Anyone who puts any metal in a plasma field for 
>recycle is at minimum an idiot you get nothing 
>out for the trouble. You put recycles with H and 
>C compositions such as garbage, manure, ag 
>waste, plastics, auto fluff, old carpets, paper, 
>cardboard and the like and you get process heat, 
>gasses rich in C and H and a mini RE refinery. 
>No process I have heard about comes even close 
>in energy effciency or minimizes greenhouse 
>gases and water use. And it is really cheap too.
>
>David has the details he can share with you
>
>
>>

Alan Muller, Executive Director
Green Delaware
Box 69
Port Penn, DE 19731 USA
(302)834-3466
fax (302)836-3005
greendel@no.address
www.greendel.org 

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