[GreenYes] Re: with $400 million, I think we could get darnclose to ZW!

["Mike Morin" <mikemorin@no.address>]

Re: [GreenYes] Re: with $400 million, I think we could get darn close to ZW!>On the other hand, if we would get rid of the subsidies

In many places, it is subsidies alone that make housing (for example) affordable.

>and add in the cost of externalities

Could you recommend a good book, articles, and/or websites that try to cost out externalities?

>I think that the market might be able to do as suggested.

I doubt it. The "market" is an abstraction used to mesmerize and confound those who do not benefit from the economic status quo. At its best it is a gross oversimplification of reality.

Thank you.


MM
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Reindl, John 
  To: David Biddle ; Alan Muller ; Greenyes List 
  Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:16 PM
  Subject: [GreenYes] Re: with $400 million, I think we could get darnclose to ZW!


  Hi David ~

  I wish I could agree, but since the market not only ignores the externalities, but also includes horrendous amounts of subsidies, I don't beleive that it can do the analysis.

  On the other hand, if we would get rid of the subsidies and add in the cost of externalities, I think that the market might be able to do as suggested.

  John 
    -----Original Message-----
    From: David Biddle [mailto:Dbiddle@no.address]
    Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 2:12 PM
    To: Alan Muller; Reindl, John; Greenyes List
    Subject: Re: [GreenYes] Re: with $400 million, I think we could get darnclose to ZW!


    Not to be glib here, but market driven economics does the analysis for you over time. I know that planning is better, and not going down certain roads is preferable, but in lieu of good data and heavy consulting and research fees, the market tells you what you need to know. Yes, yes, externalities and subsidies muck up the equation, but still...

    -- 
    David Biddle, Executive Director
    Greater Philadelphia Commercial Recycling Council
    P.O. Box 4037
    Philadelphia, PA 19118

    215-247-3090 (desk)
    215-432-8225 (cell)

    <http://www.gpcrc.com>

    Read In Business magazine to learn about sustainable 
    businesses in communities across North America! 
    Go to: <http://www.jgpress.com/inbusine.htm>

    on 6/30/06 2:03 PM, Alan Muller at amuller@no.address wrote:


      At 11:38 AM 6/30/2006 -0500, Reindl, John wrote:

        Hi Alan ~
         
        Yes, I would say that, for example, transporting glass 1,000 miles for glass-to-glass recycling may result in the use of more energy and the emission of more pollutants to the atmosphere than alternative methods of handling that material.
         
        I recommend that we do analyses of what the environmental impacts are of our decisions. I also recommend using an environmental valuation process to help us combine the range of impacts (a pound of arsenic or mercury to the air has a larger impact than a ton of carbon dioxide; environmental valuation can help show the different sizes of these impacts). 
         
        Europe has used these methodologies to set green taxes. I suggest that we also explore this approach. 
         
        John 


      I agree that there is something to be said for this.  But I see problems also:  (1)  Demands for this sort of analysis could be used to obstruct the development of "zero waste" programs by calling for all sorts of complex evaluations, and (2) this sort of assessment usually involves assumptions piled on top of assumptions.  The results often seems more sensitive to the assumptions than to the basic data itself.

      I am influenced by the mischief that has been done by industry-driven "risk assessment" in environmental decision-making.

      Alan

      Alan Muller, Executive Director
      Green Delaware
      Box 69
      Port Penn, DE 19731 USA
      (302)834-3466
      fax (302)836-3005 
      greendel@no.address
      www.greendel.org <http://www.greendel.org/> 
      face=AGaramond>





    


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