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RE: [greenyes] RE: Cheeks and Recycling


...and what does it mean, we "as a society"? I don't see one unified
group anywhere, do you? Sorry to be somewhat cynical (maybe the age
thing) but until we can remove some of the corporate power and greed
from Washington and elsewhere, I see little hope about gaining, or
regaining, ground. That said, I'm still ready to move on with our
positive, pro-Planet-Earth agenda!

Heidi Feldman

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Lombardi [mailto:eric@no.address]
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:00 PM
To: 'Peter Anderson'; 'GreenYes'
Subject: [greenyes] RE: Cheeks and Recycling

I want to jump in to support Peter's point about why recycling in
America is
still fighting and LOSING ground instead of leading us toward a more
sustainable future. I was there "in the day" for solar in the 70's, and
it
was the same kind of collapse in the 80's and 90's. Why? Because the
market
price of the alternative is too damn low! I won't call oil or landfills
"competition" since they are a fundamentally different way of living on
this
planet than what recycling and solar can offer... and that is where the
debate must go. Once we as a society decide what our public policy
goals
are, and maybe we'll just decide that clean air, groundwater and local
economies are important, then we need to "change the rules" so that the
market economics rewards the clean market leaders.

The real revolution to protect our natural places and our children's
bodies
is an economic revolution ... what are the rules for making money? And,
here's the tough part, the Age of Globalization means the new rules need
to
go global.

Eric

Eric Lombardi
Executive Director
Eco-Cycle Inc
303-444-6634
www.ecocycle.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Anderson [mailto:anderson@no.address]
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:55 PM
To: GreenYes
Subject: [greenyes] Evangelicals - Threat or Promise

Dave and Doug have taken exception to the caption I included as a lead
in
the Rolling Stones article on evangelicals' political plans.

Dave says he has no intention of turning the other cheek: and Doug says
this

has nothing to do with recycling. Briefly in reply--

CHEEKS. Although I am quite irreligious in the institutional sense,
I
have done quite a bit of reading, because -- notwithstanding the
distortions

to which he has been put-- Jesus is an incredible historic figure in the

history of social and moral change. In the context of his times, turning
the

other cheek was not a meek and passive act...doing so to the Romans was
a
well known showing of defiance, much like Ghandi's salt protest. In
hindsight, perhaps though I should have better mentioned his use of the
word

agape for the basis of a new relationship with former enemies, which is
usually translated as love, but in Greek really means unconditional
love,
which is something so much more and transcendent. But, at this point, I

fear digressing too much, and ask anyone who wants to delve into that to

email me directly.

RECYCLING. Inasmuch as recycling, except for non-ferrous metals and

high grade papers, continues to hang on by its tenterhooks, more than 15

years after the beginning of the modern era of recycling, we have to ask
why

if we are going to, ourselves, be sustainable. I believe the answer
lies in

the fact that the things we compete against, virgin materials and
disposal,
are drastically underpriced because the wrong people have controlled the

political levers. That is to say, our fate lies in public policy, and in

that arena, we are today being eaten alive. Unless we delve in to learn
why

and act on those lessons, we will be doomed to dwell on the minutia of
recycling as it inevitably declines over time. Our fate lies in the
fundamentals of our society not the nuts and bolts of our industry.
Note
that we can ever forget about doing what we can to tighten the screws,
but
not at the expense of forgetting the wider tableau where the things are
decided that will determine our success. Ditto for what is needed to
right
the ship: we are sinking, not listing, and refining our message doesn't
begin to reach the depth of our problems: fundamental political changes
in
tectonics are what is needed.


Peter

_________________________
Peter Anderson, President
RECYCLEWORLDS CONSULTING
4513 Vernon Blvd. Suite 15
Madison, WI 53705-4964
Ph: (608) 231-1100
Fax: (608) 233-0011
Cell: (608) 698-1314
eMail: anderson@no.address
web: www.recycleworlds.net

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