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[greenyes] Fwd: [greenyes] scavenging
Another response from Jaime Lozano is pasted in below. Note that the City of Hawthorne is planning to have their Police Department do some focused Scavenger patrols, now that they've documented the unsafe arena it currently presents (as alluded to by Sharon Gates). The current plan is to have the Police Department do a focused intense scavenger patrol, for a month, followed by Code Enforcement taking a more proactive approach.


Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:07:12 -0700
From: Jaime Lozano <jalozano@no.address>

We are now evaluating the results. While most of us would consider a
homeless person's scavenging from our trash in search of some type of income to make ends meet, my conclusion is that there are a few of these needy people... however they are not the majority... Yes, we in fact dealt with some small time folks trying to make a few bucks...I did not see anyone who actually lived from this activity. Most of the "homeless" scavengers that we did detain and advise of the City's scavenging ordinance, claimed to live in an adjoining city and do business in 3 to 4 cities on a daily basis.

When we did stop scavengers, and request them to take what they had already netted, and leave the City; Many residents came out and thanked us, telling us that they lived in fear of them. One important point to consider, some of these folks are not "well" mentally. The basic fact is one that we cannot avoid to come back to at the end of the day... It is illegal to scavenge!

Would we stop enforcing littering laws because people of little means
litter?  I think not!  This whole issue confronting us represents an issue
with an attractive nuisance.  If people were not placing commodities in
their trash and recycling bin, scavengers would not be coming through the
City littering the sidewalks in their efforts to choose material with a
value, stealing it, and while doing so scaring residents, their children

AND, what about the professional Organized Scavenger that uses a vehicle...we found 2 middle aged ladies who were dressed to appear to be scavengers, scavenging... when we advised them to leave... they left; we accidentally ran into them about 30 minutes later, loading up a van, which was already 80% full of their newest scavenged commodities. What do you do then?

Maybe cite them and impound the vehicle used in committing a crime... what's the difference with Drug laws. Residents have entrusted and conveyed title to the City of their commodities, why is the City allowing a third person, (without a permit, license, duty to report, etc.) to lift these materials and convert them to their personal gain. If this material were to increase in return, perhaps the City could eventually return some saving due to the increased income to the residents who donated them to the City in the first place.

Jaime Lozano
Environmental Programs
City of Hawthorne, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Liss [mailto:gary@no.address]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:44 PM
To: Jaime A. Lozano; jalozano@no.address; Jaime A. Lozano
Subject: Fwd: RE: [greenyes] scavenging

>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:20:17 -0400
>From: "Doug Koplow" <koplow@no.address>
>To: <greenyes@no.address>, <Sharon_Gates@no.address>
>Subject: RE: [greenyes] scavenging
>There seem to be a couple of issues going on here.
>1)  Revenue loss.  Do people feel like they are losing a significant
>amount of revenue from homeless people with shopping carts?  While I can
>see the benefit of sting operations to stop organized scavanging (such
>as via vans), I wouldn't think there is much to be gained by trying to
>stop homeless people from earning a bit of money.  There was some study
>(I can't remember the title) that suggested that at least in bottle bill
>states, the lost revenue on aluminum was reduced by the fact that many
>scavengers were also taking deposit glass bottles as well, reducing
>breakage and cross-contamination.
>2)  Dumping.  The nuisance and recycling loss from dumped barrels does
>seem to be a big problem.  However, as an earlier poster suggested, this
>problem seems as though it can be dealt with by encouraging people to
>segregate the deposit/rebate items so scavengers can get them easily.
>This is done in Cambridge, MA at public trash barrels, and seems to work
>pretty well.  I think lots of people would actually like that their
>deposits were going directly to somebody who needs them.
> >>> <Sharon_Gates@no.address> 07/03/03 02:29PM >>>
>I don't know about anybody else on this list, but I'd certainly not be
>comfortable confronting scavengers about the illegality of their
>activities, especially in the wee hours.  And there's absolutely no way
>I'd detain someone while we waited for the police to show up.  Maybe
>is more comfortable doing this stuff than me -- he's a big guy and he
>speaks Spanish.
>Sharon Gates
>Recycling Specialist
>City of Long Beach, California
>"Chris Cloutier" <Ccloutier@no.address>
>07/03/2003 11:12 AM
>Please respond to Ccloutier
>         To:     "'Gary Liss'" <gary@no.address>,
>         cc:     greenyes@no.address
>         Subject:        RE: [greenyes] scavenging
>How many scavengers accepted the invitation to stay and be arrested?
>Chris Cloutier
>D&R International
>1684 Selby Ave.
>St. Paul, MN  55104
>651.644.4989 (f)
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gary Liss [mailto:gary@no.address]
>Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 1:08 PM
>To: Sharon_Gates@no.address
>Cc: greenyes@no.address
>Subject: Re: [greenyes] scavenging
>The exact same thing has been happening in Hawthorne.  Recently, as
>the rollout of the new recycling system, Jaime Lozano (City of
>has been working with the residential contractor (H&C Disposal) to do
>"sting" operations in the early morning hours.
>The main impetus for this sting operation was the mess left behind,
>although the interest of the residential contractor was clearly related
>their lost revenues as well, as they retain all revenues from sale of
>recyclables collected.
>They've gone out a number of times in the last month.  When they
>people illegally scavenging, they stopped them and warned them that it
>illegal to do in Hawthorne.  The scavenger would then leave.  If they
>the scavenger again, they then asked the scavenger to stay, and they
>the Police to come and arrest them.  You can contact Jaime Lozano at
>jalozano@no.address for more info.
>At 09:33 AM 07/03/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >The revenue loss from scavenging is a very minor factor in our
> >problem in Long Beach.  The problem is that people go through our
> >and down our streets rifling through recycling bins, making noise,
> >disturbing residents, etc.  Often the scavengers will dump the
> >the bin, take what they want, and leave the rest on the ground.  Then
> >the recycling truck comes by, the driver doesn't want to stop and
> >everything up, to say nothing of all the material that has blown away.
>  I
> >was just speaking with a resident who was calling about scavenging,
> >she said "if the guy is so comfortable going through my recycling bin
> >taking what he wants, maybe he'll be just as comfortable taking
> >off my porch or going in my back yard."  Regardless of whether or not
> >scavenging leads to other kinds of theft, the last thing I want is
> >residents to feel they are endangering themselves by setting out
> >recycling.  If it was just a matter of the City losing a bit of
> >then the cost-benefit analysis of police response might work out so
> >it really didn't make sense for the police to address scavenging.  But
> >issue is really disturbing the peace, littering, and people feeling
> >in their homes -- issues that I think the police should be more
> >about than they sometimes appear to be.
> >
> >Sharon Gates
> >Recycling Specialist
> >City of Long Beach, California
> >562/570-4694
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >"Wayne Turner" <WAYNET@no.address>
> >07/03/2003 04:41 AM
> >
> >
> >         To:     <greenyes@no.address>, <Sharon_Gates@no.address>
> >         cc:
> >         Subject:        Re: [greenyes] scavenging
> >
> >
> >Sharon, et al.,
> >
> >Scavenging rises and falls with the markets for materials.  When OCC
> >prices go south, the pickup trucks scavenging OCC disappear only to
> >reappear magically overnight when prices rebound.  Likewise, UBC
> >dictate how zealous the scavengers are.  Since UBC prices are
> >steady, the scavenging is too.  The most aggravating thing about the
> >scavenging is that it leaves the dregs for the municipality to
> >and drives our cost per ton up.  It's a real catch 22.  I guess I
> >be thankful that the material is being collected and sold on the open
> >market and not subsidized by the city but we can't make instantaneous
> >changes to our fleets and staffs to accommodate these sudden
> >fluctuations.
> >
> >Wayne
> >
> >(snip, snip)
>Gary Liss
>Fax: 916-652-0485
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: greenyes-unsubscribe@no.address
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>Doug Koplow
>Earth Track, Inc.
>2067 Massachusetts Avenue - 4th Floor
>Cambridge, MA  02140
>Tel:  617/661-4700
>Fax: 617/354-0463
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: greenyes-unsubscribe@no.address
>For additional commands, e-mail: greenyes-help@no.address

Gary Liss
Fax: 916-652-0485

Gary Liss
Fax: 916-652-0485

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