Today's Topics:
Fw: [Fwd: FW: [Fwd: Fwd(2): PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
GreenYes Digest V98 #48
job announcement - City of Oakland
Job Opportunity - Please post
landfill construction and siting costs -Forwarded
Paper Making
Post-consumer recycled plastic mandates (2 msgs)
Recycled Content mandates
returnable bottles (incl medicine bottles)
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--- Loop-Detect: GreenYes:98/49 ----------------------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:26:28 -0800 From: "Eric A. Hall" <ehall@ehsco.com> Subject: Fw: [Fwd: FW: [Fwd: Fwd(2): PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:12:56 -0600 From: "RecycleWorlds" <anderson@msn.fullfeed.com> Subject: GreenYes Digest V98 #48
Dan Johnson-Weinberger asked:
> >Hi. My name is Dan Johnson-Weinberger and I'm with the Environmental Law >Society of the University of Chicago Law School. I'm interested in mandates >for bottlers to use some post-consumer plastic material in order to develop >the demand side of plastic recycling. > >I'm new to the list, so if the topic has been recently covered, forgive me. >I've emailed some folks about this proposal, and learned that the cost is >about 1/4 cent per bottle (to use recycled plastic), the technology to use >recycled plastic exists, and the vigin resin has been dumped onto the market >to undercut the recycled plastic bottles. Also, as Jeff noted, there are >tons and tons of plastic bottles sitting in storage. Mandates can raise the >price of the material and get the market moving. > >Does anyone have information you can direct me to? What are your thoughts >on such a proposal? Although national legislation might be the most >efficient, clearly that's not a political possibility. I think a progressive >municipal/state coalition can work though, i.e., about a dozen cities and/or >states each pass local mandates that any plastic bottles sold within the >jurisdiction must contain post-consumer recycled plastic, and all local >mandates are conditional on 10 other jurisdictions also passing a similar >law (so that no city is singularly picked on). Do you all think this would >be a >good idea? Any studies out there? >
If plastic bottle recycling is to survive over the long haul, several different approaches will need to be followed because of the underlying nature of resin and its underlying commodity behavior.
As to it underlying nature, most thermoplastic resins in common container use melt between 250 F and 450 F, compared to 1000 F to 2000 F in other recycled materials. As such, because it is not "burned away" contamination is of greater concern, and this increases the cost of processing to make a product that can be reused in high end applications. This last point needs to be emphasized. While many of the costly concerns can be overcome by recycling container plastic back into plastic lumber and flower pot applications, the value of those products are so low that, on a trended basis, those markets cannot really pay anything to recyclers for that use. Hence, we have to find a way to be able to feed into the high end markets that can pay over 10 cents per pound to survive over the long term.
As to the commodity business in resins, there is a boom bust record (more heavily weighted by overbuilding, and during periods of oversupply, the domestic large petrochemical firms fight to the death to maintain market share (now increasingly compounded by large international companies doing the same). Consequently, they frequently wind up selling virgin resin into the off spec markets for less than their incremental cost of production. At that price, there's no way for recovered postconsumer bottle scrap resin to compete because the current cost of handling PCR exceeds the price that virgin sells for during these periods. Since recyclers are small without diversified operations or excessive amounts of working capital, they are unable to weather those recurring loss-periods, and more and more of them continue to go out of business.
This suggests that three policy measure may be necessary to sustain plastics recycling:
1) Minimum content, as you mention, and here you should check with California.
BUT ALSO
2) Design for recyclability. Little things on plastic bottles for more attractive shelf appearance can be devastating for recyclers by increasing the cost of processing. If you want more on this let me know, it would take more space than the average listserve reader would want for this response.
3) Integrated handling where size and sophistication lend itself to it. This means consolidating all of the upgrading steps for PCR in one location, the multi stages of handling add 10 cents a pound and are eating us alive. But again, give me a call if you want more because a full explaination would not fit here. ____________________________________ Peter Anderson RecycleWorlds Consulting 4513 Vernon Blvd. Ste. 15 Madison, WI 53705-4964 Phone:(608) 231-1100/Fax: (608) 233-0011 E-mail:recycle@msn.fullfeed.com
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:35:15 -0800 From: John McCabe <mccab#j@oak2.ci.oakland.ca.us> Subject: job announcement - City of Oakland
Here's a position in our office. Standard disclaimer: You should get the official announcement.
CITY OF OAKLAND CAREER OPPORTUNITY
ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS INTERN $2,865 to 3,517 per month, 37.5 hours per week City Pays PERS Equivalent to 7% of Salary Closes: Monday, March 16, 1998, 5:00 P.M. (postmarks not accepted)
The Position Under supervision of the Management Assistant, the Environmental Affairs Intern performs research and analysis for special projects; assists management staff with a variety of administrative matters; and responds to inquiries from various City staff and the general public. The qualified candidate may receive instruction from various departmental staff, including the Environmental Services Manager.
Typical duties may include but are not limited to the following: < Writes clear, concise documents and reports. < Assists with fiscal management, budget analysis, and procurement. < Assists with the preparation of special studies in coordination with the Environmental, Recycling & Solid Waste, We Mean Clean, and Creeks programs. < Develops and maintains various database tracking systems and spreadsheets. < Assists in the research, analysis, and preparation of a variety of reports on current and proposed programs and projects. < Conducts in-depth research and analysis on City services, policies, and programs. < Makes presentations to large and small groups. < Performs related duties as assigned.
Minimum Requirements for Application Any combination of experience and education that would demonstrate possession of the required knowledge and abilities may be qualifying. A typical way to obtain the knowledge and abilities would be:
Education: Bachelor=3Ds degree from an accredited college or university in Public or Business Administration, Environmental Studies, Public Policy, Government/City Planning, Accounting, or a closely related field.
Experience: One-to-two years of experience performing progressively responsible and complex administrative work, including some fiscal management. A Master=3Ds degree or coursework in progress may be= substituted for one year=3Ds experience.=20
Qualifications: The ideal candidate will have considerable knowledge of principles and methods of research and analysis; computer systems including word processing, spreadsheet, and database programs; public contact and community relations techniques; and English grammar and punctuation. In addition, the candidate should have working knowledge of public management principles; municipal government organizations and functions; and financial and budget management practices. The candidate should also possess the ability to research, collect and interpret data; read statistical data; prepare and analyze complex reports, proposals, and other written material of a general or technical nature; communicate effectively both orally and in writing; plan, coordinate, schedule, and multi-task various activities; coordinate functions and activities between departments and outside agencies; and establish and maintain effective work relationships with those contacted in the performance of required duties.
The Selection Process Stage I: The first stage in the selection process will consist of an application and supplemental questionnaire appraisal (weighted PASS/FAIL). Applications submitted without a completed supplemental questionnaire will not be given further consideration. Meeting the minimum qualifications does not guarantee advancement to Stage II. Only the most suitable qualified candidates will be invited to Stage II.
Stage II: The second stage will consist of an Oral Examination (weighted 100%). A brief written exercise may precede the oral examination. This examination process will evaluate the knowledge and abilities listed above.
The City of Oakland reserves the right to modify the selection process as necessary to conform to administrative or business necessity.
Candidates must achieve a scale score of 70 or more on this examination to be placed on the eligible list for employment consideration.
Advisories Residency(Open): Applicants who are residents of the City of Oakland at the time of posting an eligible list will receive an additional 5% of their final score after successfully passing the examination. Residency must be verifiable through presentation of a California Driver=3Ds License or Identification, voter=3Ds registration, billing from a public utility, or other acceptable documents prior to the posting of the eligible list.
Emergency Response Residency Zone: Employees hired on or after February 1, 1996 in classifications determined by the City Manager to be needed immediately in the event of a major emergency shall be required, as of the first day of employment, to reside in a residency zone that includes areas that are approximately ten miles from the geographic center of Oakland. Further, such employees shall be required, as condition of continued employment, to maintain residency within the zone during their employment with the City of Oakland. City of Oakland employees hired prior to February 1, 1996 are exempt from this requirement. A list of emergency responder classifications and residency zone Cities and zip codes are available for review at the Employment Information Office at 505-14th Street, Suite 101. This position is not one of the emergency response residency zone classification; however, you may be affected if you seek a promotion into one of the designated classifications following your initial hire into City employment. Veterans: Candidates who achieve a passing score on the examination will receive 5% added to their score, provided that they meet the requirements stated in Rule 4, Section 4.18 and 4.19 of the Oakland Civil Service Board Rules and Regulations. The official DD214 must be presented prior to the posting of the eligible list to verify veteran=3Ds status.
Immigration and Reform Control Act: In compliance with the Immigration and Reform Control Act of 1986, the City of Oakland will only hire individuals who are legally authorized to work in the United States.
Legal: In compliance with local, state, and federal laws and regulations, the City of Oakland will employ and promote qualified individuals without regard to disability. The City is committed to making reasonable accommodations in the examination process and in the work environment. Individuals requesting reasonable accommodations in the examination process must do so no later than five working days after the final filing date for receipt of applications, otherwise it may not be possible to arrange accommodations for the selection process. Such requests should be addressed to Dr. Bruce Topp, Office of Personnel Resource Management, 505-14th Street, Suite 102, Oakland, CA 94612, or phone him at (510) 238-6466 or TDD (510) 238-6930.
Benefits Fully paid PERS retirement; health, dental, vision, and orthodontic plans for employee and dependents; vacation leave, sick leave, and holidays; education tuition reimbursement; life insurance; employee assistance program; deferred compensation plan; and credit union services.
How to Apply City of Oakland application documents may be obtained in person or by sending a self-addressed stamped envelope and a request to:
Public Works Agency Environmental Services Division Environmental Affairs Intern Position 1333 Broadway, Suite 330A Oakland, CA 94612
When and Where to Submit Application Documents Please return completed applications and supplemental questionnaires by 5:00 P. M., Monday, March 16, 1998 (postmarks are not accepted) to:
Public Works Agency Environmental Services Division Environmental Affairs Intern Position 1333 Broadway, Suite 330A Oakland, CA 94612
Date of Examination To be announced
The City of Oakland is a EEO/ADA Employer. CITY OF OAKLAND SUPPLEMENTAL QUESTIONNAIRE Environmental Affairs Intern Final Filing Date: Monday, March 16, 1998 (postmarks not accepted)
The purpose of this supplemental questionnaire is to assess your qualifications, training, and experience in specific job related areas. Your answers to these questions, along with your completed application, will be used to select the most suitably qualified candidates. Applications submitted without a completed supplemental questionnaire will not be considered.
Respond to each of the following questions on a separate sheet of paper. Describe your responsibilities and accomplishments as completely as possible, but limit them to one 82@ by 11" sheet of paper (single or double-spaced) per question. Responses must be legible; typewritten responses are preferred. Submit completed City of Oakland application materials to: Public Works Agency, Environmental Services Division - Environmental Affairs Intern Position, 1333 Broadway, Suite 330A, Oakland, CA 94612.
1. A. Describe your experience in preparing reports of a complex and analytical nature. Give examples of the types of reports you have written and their purpose. B. Attach a copy of a written report that you have prepared.
2. Describe your experience working with people from varying departments and/or organizations. Detail the varying work levels of the employees in the organization, the specific nature of the work performed, and the final outcome or product. Include in your description the method of communication used (i.e., one-on-one meetings, telephone, written reports).
3. Describe your experience working with an organization=3Ds budget system. Detail information about the size of the budget, its complexity, essentials aspects of the system, and how you were involved in its use and/or development.
4. Describe your experience in developing policies, programs, and/or practices for an organization.
Certification of Applicant
I, the undersigned, understand that all information provided herein is subject to verification, and is true to the best of my knowledge and= ability.
SIGNATURE DATE
............................................................................ ............................................................... John McCabe, Recycling Specialist City of Oakland Public Works Agency, Environmental Services Division (510) 238-SAVE (general line), mccab#j@oak2.ci.oakland.ca.us
This is my "official" City of Oakland account. ............................................................................ ...............................................................
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:37:55 -0800 From: Steven Devine <steved@CI.SAN-PABLO.CA.US> (by way of John McCabe <mccab#j@oak2.ci.oakland.ca.us>) Subject: Job Opportunity - Please post
I'm just the person forwarding the message...
EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY WASTE PREVENTION SPECIALIST=09
WEST CONTRA COSTA INTEGRATED WASTE MANAGEMENT AUTHORITY One Alvarado Square, San Pablo, California 94806 (510) 215-3125
Full-Time Salary Range: $2,844 - $3,456 per month Filing Deadline: March 31, 1998 at 5:00 p.m. (Postmarks and faxes not accepted) =20
THE POSITION: Under the direction of the Manager - Source Reduction and Recycling and the Executive Director, the Waste Prevention Specialist conducts field investigations and analyses, develops and implements education and outreach programs, promotes waste reduction, recycling and composting . The Waste Prevention Specialist is a non-management position but may from time to time supervise interns in special projects.=20
THE AUTHORITY: A joint powers agency created by the Cities of El Cerrito, Hercules, Pinole, Richmond and San Pablo; governed by a seven-member Board of elected council members from the Member Cities; responsible for compliance with California Public Resources Code requirements (reduction in disposal of solid waste in landfills, reduction, recycling and safe disposal of household hazardous waste, education and public information); responsible for overview and regulation of rates for a privately owned waste transfer and recyclables processing facility (the "IRRF"). Funding for the Authority is from rates charged at the IRRF and paid by residents and businesses.
EXAMPLES OF DUTIES (May include but are not limited to the following):
Analyze source reduction, recycling, composting, household hazardous waste and other solid waste management programs to determine expected diversion and contribution towards achievement of the State mandated waste reduction requirements.
Conduct waste assessments at a variety of businesses, prepare recommendations and provide technical assistance to businesses, community groups and local jurisdictions to reduce and recycle waste.
Develop and implement education and outreach activities and programs.
Monitor the market demand and prices for recyclable materials to create an independent data base.
Arrange for and perform presentations to various business and trade associations.
Coordinate recycling services with the local franchised hauler.
Prepare written reports.
Evaluate materials revenue estimates and actuals for use in the Integrated Resource Recovery Facility (IRRF) budgets.
Perform related duties as assigned.
QUALIFICATIONS:
Knowledge of principles and practices associated with the development and implementation of waste reduction programs, including State law and recycling and waste management industry practices; correct English usage, including spelling, grammar and punctuation, and principles of public speaking; computer systems with proficiency in developing computer spreadsheets and computer generated graphics - specifically WordPerfect and Excel.
Ability to organize thoughts and effectively communicate both orally and in writing; develop public information materials, prepare=20 correspondence and write reports; analyze complex situations, compile and interpret data and statistics, laws and regulations and formulate and present coherent conclusions resulting from such analyses; establish and maintain effective working relationships with Authority and Member Agency staff, various cultural and social ethnic groups and others contacted during the performance of duties.
At a minimum, with three years work experience in environmental studies, recycling and waste reduction or related field, of which at least one year includes field activities interacting with residents and businesses; Bachelor's Degree in business, environmental studies, public policy or related field. Ability to physically lift and carry up to= 40 pounds, see, read, sit, hold, hear, reach, talk, type, walk, walk up steps, and travel, mentally analyze, differentiate, identify, interpret, know, observe, problem solve, remember, understand, explain and count.
APPLICATION / SELECTION PROCESS: Application materials may be obtained by sending a self-addressed stamped envelope to West Contra Costa Integrated Waste Management Authority - Human Resources, One Alvarado Square, San Pablo, California, 94806. A completed job application and supplemental questionnaire, a copy of diploma or transcripts indicating graduation from an accredited college in the field specified and a current DMV driving record must be received on or before the filing deadline of 5:00 p.m., March 31, 1998.
The first stage of the selection process will consist of an appraisal of the completed application and supplemental questionnaire. Meeting the minimum requirements of the position does not guarantee advancement in any phase of the selection process. Only the best qualified applicants will be invited to participate in the subsequent phase of the selection process. Final selection will be made from an eligibility list which will remain active for one year. =20 Pre-employment Medical Examination: The successful candidate having been offered employment, is required to pass an Authority paid pre-employment medical examination, which includes drug screening, and fingerprinting.
Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA): Please contact the Authority on or before the filing deadline if special accommodations are necessary at any stage of the selection process (medical documentation must be provided upon request).
Immigration Reform and Control Act: In accordance with the Immigration & Control Act of 1986, all potential employees will be required to provide proof of United States Citizenship or authorization to work in the United States upon request.
Drug-Free Workplace Policy: In accordance with the Drug-Free Workplace Act of 1988, it is the objective of the Authority to maintain a drug-free workplace. Any Authority employee will be expected to behave in accordance with this policy.
BENEFITS Retirement - P.E.R.S. (Public Employees Retirement System) 2% at 55 formula.
Medical -Authority pays Medical Plan premium to maximum of $162.82 (Employee only), $325.64 (Employee plus One), $433.11 (Employee plus Two or More); choice of P.E.R.S. Health Plan providers. =09 Dental - Delta Dental Plan of California - Authority paid premium. Dual Medical and Dental Coverage - Employees who have medical/dental coverage through another source,(e.g. spouse) have the option to receive in cash (taxable), 50% of the monthly health plan premium or to contribute the amount towards an existing Deferred Compensation Plan.
Vision Plan - Authority pays a maximum of $150 per year.
Vacation - Accrue ten (10) days per year for the first three years; fifteen (15) days after three years of service.
Sick Leave - Accrued at the rate of one(1) day per each calendar month of service (12 days per year). =20
Life Insurance - $20,000 policy.
Observed Legal Holidays - 13 per year.
Floating Holiday - one day per year; pro-rated based on hire date.
Employee Assistance Program - 15 paid counseling sessions per year.
Credit Union - Metro One
Education Incentive Program
Information herein does not constitute either an expressed or implied contract of employment and is subject to change.=20
The West Contra Costa Integrated Waste Management Authority is an equal opportunity employer.
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:38:23 -0500 From: Pete Pasterz <Pete.Pasterz@USDWP.MSU.EDU> Subject: landfill construction and siting costs -Forwarded
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to=20 consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to=20 properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=3D_1247D967.88E98711 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline
Can anyone help out Chris? Please reply directly to him as his request was to a different listserv. --=3D_1247D967.88E98711 Content-Type: message/rfc822
Received: From [128.148.128.155] listserv.brown.edu By usdwp.msu.edu (GroupWise SMTP/MIME daemon 4.11) Mon, 23 Feb 98 20:33:46 EST Received: from stanley.cis.Brown.EDU (stanley.cis.brown.edu [128.148.128.155]) by listserv.brown.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA02926; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:35:38 -0500 Received: from BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LISTSERV release= 1.8b) with NJE id 6140 for RECYC-L@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:34:34 -0500 Received: from BROWNVM (NJE origin SMTP@BROWNVM) by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4024; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:34:34 -0500 Received: from nut.brown.edu by BROWNVM.brown.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with= TCP; Mon, 23 Feb 98 20:34:33 EST Received: from dns.pso.siu.edu (dns.pso.siu.edu [131.230.250.1]) by nut.brown.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01329 for <RECYC-L@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:34:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from pmq.pso.siu.edu (pmq.pso.siu.edu [131.230.250.3]) by dns.pso.siu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29083 for <RECYC-L@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU.>; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:34:40 -0600 Received: from PSO_SERVER/SpoolDir by pmq.pso.siu.edu (Mercury 1.31); 23 Feb= 98 19:33:17 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by PSO_SERVER (Mercury 1.31); 23 Feb 98 19:32:51= +1100 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <926DFB1632@pmq.pso.siu.edu> Reply-To: RECYC-L College and University Recycling Coordinator List <RECYC-L@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU> Sender: RECYC-L College and University Recycling Coordinator List <RECYC-L@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU> Organization: Plant & Service Operations - SIUC Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:32:47 -0500 From: Chris Kalter <RECYC-L@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU> To: RECYC-L@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU, chrisk@PSO.SIU.EDU Subject: landfill construction and siting costs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline
Does anyone have a clue how much it costs to site and build a landfill? I'm needing this for my thesis, so you can email me directly if you know, or might know someone who does. I've been in contact with the EPA and am waiting to hear back from them.
Thanks in advance. Chris Kalter Grad Assistant, SIUC Recycling Program Southern Illinois University at Carbondale chrisk@pso.siu.edu
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:07:59 -0600 From: Jim McNelly <compost@cloudnet.com> Subject: Paper Making
Anyone know of a good small scale paper making system? An artist we work with is interested in making their own art paper, poster size, from recycled paper. So this would have to be larger than a small classroom kit. It is my understanding that the pulper is the most critical component.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jim~ McNelly compost@cloudnet.com Http://www.composter.com
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:42:08 -0600 From: Irvine Chuck <cirvine@PrimeAlliance.com> Subject: Post-consumer recycled plastic mandates
Your idea for mandates on a local basis is not viable. Soft drinks are bottled in large facilities destined in most cases for multistate distribution. Many bottlers do not make their own bottles. Coke and Pepsi have done a great deal of research on using pc plastic [PET] and the economics are simply not there. I don't know where you found the =BC cent figure, but it may or may not be accurate. PET producers don't dump their products so that pc won't be economical for use in bottles, it's a market thing and many producers have been scaling up to meet anticipated demand. They don't consult with each other [against the law] so when they all build more capacity at the same time, the price goes down.=20
If you do a little research, you will find there are many uses for pc PET , some are even economically feasible. Many hard-core environmentalists have raised the mandate flag before you and have been unceremoniously shot down. You will undoubtedly hear from them with your posting.
---------- From: Dan Johnson-Weinberger [SMTP:proportionalrepresentation@email.msn.com] Sent: Monday, February 23, 1998 6:50 PM To: GreenYes Subject: Post-consumer recycled plastic mandates
Hi. My name is Dan Johnson-Weinberger and I'm with the Environmental Law Society of the University of Chicago Law School. I'm interested in mandates for bottlers to use some post-consumer plastic material in order to develop the demand side of plastic recycling.
I'm new to the list, so if the topic has been recently covered, forgive me. I've emailed some folks about this proposal, and learned that the cost is about 1/4 cent per bottle (to use recycled plastic), the technology to use recycled plastic exists, and the vigin resin has been dumped onto the market to undercut the recycled plastic bottles. Also, as Jeff noted, there are tons and tons of plastic bottles sitting in storage. Mandates can raise the price of the material and get the market moving.
Does anyone have information you can direct me to? What are your thoughts on such a proposal? Although national legislation might be the most efficient, clearly that's not a political possibility. I think a progressive municipal/state coalition can work though, i.e., about a dozen cities and/or states each pass local mandates that any plastic bottles sold within the jurisdiction must contain post-consumer recycled plastic, and all local mandates are conditional on 10 other jurisdictions also passing a similar law (so that no city is singularly picked on). Do you all think this would be a good idea? Any studies out there?
Thanks, Dan Johnson-Weinberger 748 W Webster #202 Chicago, IL 60614 773.525.7024 proportionalrepresentation@msn.com
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:24:16 -0600 From: "Dan Johnson-Weinberger" <proportionalrepresentation@email.msn.com> Subject: Post-consumer recycled plastic mandates
Irvine,
Thanks for your reply. So I understand, the reason why local mandates are not viable is because the market is regional/national, and that a facility can't separate out which bottles are to go to the mandated jurisdiction? That problem would be solved with a national mandate (true?). If not, perhaps the bottlers would use post-consumer plastic for all their bottles, especially in a region where many of the cities had a mandate.
Your idea for mandates on a local basis is not viable. Soft drinks are bottled in large facilities destined in most cases for multistate distribution. Many bottlers do not make their own bottles.
Do Coke and Pepsi? Any idea on market share--that is, about how many of the bottles are made by the manufacturer of the drink, and how many are outsourced?
Coke and Pepsi have done a great deal of research on using pc plastic [PET] and the economics are simply not there.
Does this only mean that the cost of using post-consumer plastic is much greater than the cost of using virgin material? And if that's the only problem, is that because of economies of scale or high handling costs of post-consumer material? And wouldn't a mandate then create incentives for bottlers to invest in plastic recycling facilities which would bring down the marginal cost of producing recycled plastic? Michele wrote that industry says the market price doesn't cover handling costs. Wouldn't a mandate shift the market price (we're boosting demand for a product -- post-consumer recycled plastic -- and the price will rise for it)? And with that upward shift on price, handling costs ought to come down with economies of scale -- or as others have written, with mandates on design/packaging to make it easier to recycle (i.e., only one resin per container). If local governments want higher rates, isn't a mandate a good way to get them?
Do we now have a subsidy for the producers of virgin materials, borne by the local governments that are stuck with worthless plastic that they have to pay to bury or incinerate? And a mandate to use post-consumer recycled plastic creates a stronger market for the plastic that shifts the costs from the local government (who now have a more valuable commodity in the plastic instead of worthless garbage) to the bottlers (who now have to pay more to use recycled material instead of virgin material)?
I don't know where you found the =BC cent figure, but it may or may not be accurate.
Any idea if this is accurate? I heard this from George Dreckmann who recalls hearing it from Plastic Recycling Update but can't specifically recall.
If high-end post-consumer plastic is sold in Europe thanks to mandates, and it hasn't driven the bottlers out of business (although it is costlier for them), why can't it be done here?
I would imagine the fact that the market isn't producing post-consumer plastic now only means that it isn't profitable for the bottlers to do so, but we shouldn't just look from the bottlers' perspective when determining the feasibility of mandates. Sure, the bottlers would have a higher cost (perhaps a quarter cent, perhaps not), but local governments and other owners of waste streams would have a lower cost (as plastic becomes more valuable). If the savings from the latter is greater than the costs of the former, that is economically efficient (as I understand it).
Thank you for your responses so far--I just replied to Irvine because he was the most critical!
Dan
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:30:08 -0500 From: Michele Raymond <michele@raymond.com> Subject: Recycled Content mandates
There is only one mandate really left in the U.s. on recycled content for containers, and that is California, as most people on this list know.
The CIWMB is mulling whether to enforce the mdnate on non-food containers now -- seven years after the law was passed.
It is difficult ot mandate content in plastic containers because they are do diverse, and in the U.S. we mainly recycle only #1 and #2.
The plastics industry claims there are no shortage of markets for plastic bottles (Acknowleding there are problems with PS foam and PVC) and that programs should be collecting ALL Bottles!!
The industry claims that local governments don't do their costing correctly; that plastics costs no more to pick up and sort than glass.=20 They claim the main problem is that the markets just don't pay enough to cover handling costs. Local governments apparently want higher rates and the market won't bear them.
Thats the story I get from industry -- now if anybody can show me hard evidence that there are in deed no MARKETS in some areas at all for #1 and #2s or that collecting all bottles is too expensive because of sorting, please let me know. I get two different stories on this issue and its hard to reconcile what the REAL situation is!!
Please note, NEW WEB SITE ADDRESS:
http://www.raymond.com (no need to put in "recycle" anymore)
Also NOTE:
<bold>Getting Green Dotted: The German Recycling Law Explained in Plain English</bold> is nearing completion of its 1998 UPDATE Edition. There will be NRC pricing on this. PLease see Web site, as we can NOW TAKE ORDERS for the new report It is 45 pages plus Appendix with papers from our conference, full text material, very current data, etc. and good analysis comparing Germany ot the U.S. It is more objective than anything else you will see on the topic.
Thanks
Michele Raymond
=20
Michele Raymond
Publisher
<bold>Recycling Laws International/ State Recycling Laws Update
</bold>6429 Auburn Ave. Riverdale MD 20737-1614
301/345-4237 Fax 345-4768
http://www.raymond.com/recycle
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Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:32:01 +0900 From: oldxeye@crisscross.com (Hop) Subject: returnable bottles (incl medicine bottles)
Roger M. Guttentag wrote (GreenYes Digest V98 #48) regarding returnable= bottles:
>My point here is not to unfairly lampoon those who do have strong moral >reasons for their reuse behavior. Rather, it is to provide my reasoning= for >my belief that, for better or worse (in this county at least), the= expansion >of product reuse practices will hinge more on significant economic rewards >than moral arguments (though the motivation to develop these economic >icentives can certainly have a strong moral grounding). This means we >should focus our attentions more on products with higher potential= intrinsic >values such as electronic products, furniture, shipping and transportation >products, building products and clothing.
Or, require an appropriately high financial incentive, in the form of a refundable-deposit, be placed on products of mass production/consumpsion (such as beverage bottles & cans; motor oil, detergent, shampoo & conditioner containers; medicine bottles; etc) to ensure their high rate of return for re-use &/or recycling.
Hop :)+<
>From: "Blair Pollock" <bpollock@town.ci.chapel-hill.nc.us> >Subject: plastic medicine bottles > >Does anyone have information regarding recycling of prescription type >medicine bottles? A local woman is working on legislation and needs >information quickly on this topic. (so far, she has received discouraging >responses from pharmaceutical industry on recycling these bottles) > >In addition to posting to the list, please reply directly to: > ><<wsmith@town.ci.chapel-hill.nc.us>>
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End of GreenYes Digest V98 #49 ******************************