GreenYes Digest V98 #63

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GreenYes Digest Thu, 12 Mar 98 Volume 98 : Issue 63

Today's Topics:
Can the government end the ecological crisis ?
Job Opening for Mechanic
Product Stewardship Panel
The Ukraine / Lesya Novosad

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Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:35:48 +0100
From: (Wim A. de Bruyn)
Subject: Can the government end the ecological crisis ?

Can the government end the ecological crisis ?

The most efficient way, not to say, the only way to solve a problem, is to
solve it at its source. This is true for the problems of crime, drunken
driving, overpopulation, pollution. It is the consumer who causes the
pollution with the goods and services they buy.

When the government wants to end the ecological crisis then the government
must force, guide, herd, motivate, persuade all consumers to spend their
income on goods and services that sustain a way of living within the limits
of nature. The government can therefore use tax incentives and tax
disincentives as well as laws about permitted and not permitted levels of
pollution and laws about substances that are permitted and substances that
are not permitted to pollute the environment. This proposal implies the
central management of the income of billions of consumers, in an attempt to
keep nature in perfect condition, with all these taxes and permits and
their rules and regulations, checks and controls. It implies a police
state in which the government imposes a consumption pattern.

It is a mistake to assume that eco-taxes will reduce pollution. Eco-taxes
will make non-ecological products more expensive. The producers of
ecological products will then increase the price of their products, because
eco-products are better than non-ecological products. Better products
command a higher price. - When the costs of second class travel increases,
the costs of first class travel also increases. - Eco-taxes make living
more expensive, without motivating anyone to buy ecological products.

Eco-taxes are anti-social. The poor people, these who cannot afford
eco-products, will continue to buy non-ecological products and get all the
diseases caused by consuming non-ecological products.

Eco-taxes will create a source of income for the government. No government
will be motivated to eliminate any source of income. Eco-taxes will not be
applied to eliminate polluting practises. Even if eco-taxes would be used
to repair the damage caused by pollution, this damage could never be
completely repaired. It is not by replacing the trees destroyed by acid
rain that all the damage caused by acid rain has been repaired. Moreover,
to levy eco-taxes and then to use it to repair damage caused by pollution
is like allowing to use a road with too heavy traffic and to repair the
road continuously. This is not an efficient way to maintain a road or
nature or anything.

Tradeable permits are a license to pollute. The company which can pay the
highest price for the permit, can pollute the most. The biggest polluters
are the ones with the lowest costs of production and can therefore make the
most profit. They can therefore pay the highest price for the permits.
Tradeable permits increase pollution.

Neither eco-taxes nor tradeable permits will reduce pollution. Moreover,
they do imply a risk assessment of the levels of pollution the government
will permit. This will have the following consequence :

"But risk assessment is now embedded in our environmental laws at the
federal and state levels in a way that guarantees that the "rights" of
industrial poisoners will be protected by the apparatus of the state while
citizens will be first disempowered and then physically harmed by the risk
assessors' work. Risk assessors are now in the position of the conductors
and engineers who kept the trains running on time to the death camps in
Nazi Germany to minimize discomfort to their passengers --they are just
doing a job, honorably and to the best of their ability, but the final
result of every professional risk assessor's work is the destruction of the
natural environment, one decision at a time, and the relentless spread of
sickness throughout the human and wildlife populations."

Excerpt from the article : "Ethical Hazards of Risk Assessment", by Peter
Montague The entire article is presented at the ZERO web site :

Central management of nature does not function just as the central
management of the economy does not function. The costs of production can be
managed efficiently only by the natural managers of businesses : the
producers. The costs of living can be managed efficiently only by its
natural managers : the consumers. Consumers are the natural managers of
nature because they manage nature with every purchase they make, each and
every day, everywhere, since all products are made with natural resources.
It is not possible to force billions of consumers to live in harmony within
nature, not even in the most perfectly perverse police state pursuing evil.

Only in the beginning, when consumers can deduct the cost of living with
ecological products from taxable income, will it be efficient to levy
eco-taxes on non-ecological products. An eco-tax will make the price of
non-ecological products more expensive. This price increase will make it
more beneficial for the consumer to buy ecological products. Governments
can hasten the change to a way of living with ecological products, wih
eco-taxes, but only when the costs of living with eco-products can be
deducted from taxable income.

Brussels, 8 March 1998 W.A. de Bruyn

With sincerity and its feelings,

Wim A. de Bruyn
ZERO, association of consumers keeping their integrity with their income
45 rue Alfred Giron
B-1050 Brussels, Belgium
Tel. : **32 (2) 648 56 95
Fax : **32 (2) 648 56 95, when computer is on
e-mail :
ZERO web site :


Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:37:03 -0800
From: Myra Nissen <>
Subject: Job Opening for Mechanic

The Sutta Company is the largest privately owned paper processor in

Our Oakland plant is looking to hire an experienced diesel and/or
hydraulic mechanic with welding experience.

Our web site is http//

Interested individuals can call Darrell at 510-873-8777.

Myra Nissen
The Sutta Company
1221 Third St.
Oakland, CA 94607


Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:00:58 -0600
From: "Cloutier, Chris" <>
Subject: Product Stewardship Panel

The State of Minnesota will be convening a "Blue Ribbon Panel" on product
stewardship in the next several months. The panel will, "develop specific
recommendations to implement product stewardship approaches for priority
products (yet to be determined), "clarify responsibilities among
manufacturers, retailers, consumers, gov't and product recyclers to achieve
the following: 1) efficient use of material in manufacture, distribution,
sale and use; 2) product design such that products are not prioirty
products; 3) end-of-life management practices for prioirty products that
preclude disposal as MMSW; 4) costs of end-of-life management systems
financed by means that preclude gneral tax support by state and local
gov'ts; 4) product info developed and promoted to encourage behaviors
consistent with product stewardship".

The panel will be compised of "manufacturers, retailers, consumer advocates,
environmental advocates, waste adn recycling industry representatives, state
and local gov't officials."

I am looking for names of enviromental and consumer advocates we can submit
for membership on the panel. Ideally, we would like folks that have had
experience in this policy area and at this level. We do not want this to be
an exercise in delay and obfuscation - we need equally cogent advocates for
product stewardship as industry will put forward. If you are interested or
have suggestions for me, I would greatly appreciate it.

Feel free to forward this to others. Sorry for any cross-posting. Reply
directly to me at or call me at



Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:34:11 +0100
From: (Wim A. de Bruyn)
Subject: The Ukraine / Lesya Novosad

Lesya Novosad
Environmental Projects Manager
Eureng Limited
Harwell House
10 South Drive,
Harwell, Didcot
Oxfordshire, OX11 0PT
Tel: ++ (0)1235 861424
e-mail -

Hello Lesya Novosad,

>Dear Dr de Bruyn,

Please note that I am not the bearer of a Dr's. title.

>We did meet at the conference

I think I remember you. Did you not smile when I told my story to Mr.
Zadorsky's assistant who rushed over to the hotel, when I wanted to leave?
I am sure you remember when you smiled.

but my English was not up to your standard.
>Now it is much improved.
>I am a new person in the field. For those who are unable to talk to me on
>VIDEOVISION I am 25 years of age and considered as being attractive. I
>mention this as girls are expected to project their sexuality in promoting
>themselves and I respond. I have to use this as an introduction because we
>business people are instructed to use all that we have to gain attention.

Who instructed you to do this? I would consider such practises rather

>Eureng Limited is a forward looking organisation,

I am glad to know.

but we have a major
>problem. The MD insists that we should encourage fair play,

I do not call this a problem. I call it sound company policy.

and in a
>perverse way, so do I.

How can you encourage fair play in a perverse way? Perversity and fair
play are contradictions.

With this in mind I would ask that you tell me how
>we can work together with others you are in contact with to do some good.

We can work together in a straightforward, down to earth, honest
relationship with the intention to achieve a common goal to create
well-being for many, with integrity.

Dr Pyotr Joannevich van de Waal-Palms cut through layers of insincerity,
dishonesty, ad homini, lack of uprightness and other tactics and strategies
of war games, with her honesty. More than this, she demonstrated that
below all these layers obstructing a constructive relationship, lies a base
in which honesty, sincerity, uprightness, moral behaviour ; integrity float
in kindness, friendliness, respect, understanding, sympathy even. On such
a base, co-operation can be built in which all participants sustain each
others' strength to achieve their common goal. The relationship I suggest,
would contribute to this base. Would such a relationship suit you and your

>My main concern at the moment, within CIS countries, is helping the Ukraine
>as I am a Ukrainian.

I can share your concern, since a lot of well-being can be created in Ukraine.

>People in my country are no better or worse than those in any other
>country, although many foreign visitors experiences in the Ukraine are that
>Ukrainians are more hospitable than most. The country operates a different
>system than the west, mostly because of previously being State Owned
>organisations, including many hotels. This is changing but if we visit the
>former USSR we must be prepared for these differences. If you have patience
>you will be rewarded as our company has. To go there with a negative
>attitude will only lead to dissatisfaction.

I can accept all you wrote. I went to Ukraine with the positive
experiences in mind which I have had while visiting former Yugoslavia, many
times. Ukrainians must be exceptionally hospitable if they are more
hospitable than the Yugoslavs I met. I befriended some and visited them.
They took me out to a pub. I forgot my wallet there. The owner, who knew
my friends, delivered my wallet at the house of one of them, the next day.
I have kept in contact with them for many years.

The following is a brief
>introduction to the Ukraine for those who are interested in visiting my

Thank you for the information. It increased my knowledge about Ukraine.
You did not mention the enormous space of unspoiled nature that still
exists in Ukraine and the potential of your rivers, to create energy, for
example and, in general, the potential of your country to produce
ecological goods and services. It is this potential which makes Ukraine
attractive to me.

>I love debates but time is too precious to be involved with personal
>problems. Let us talk about your interests regarding constructive ways in
>dealing with environmental problems.

I agreed and I did. So, I do not understand the reason for your remark and
suggestion, for your mail even. I made the offer : "How to keep one's
integrity with one's income", a few days ago. I have not had any answer.
How should I interpret this silence? Do the managers of Eureng realise
that I offer them to be one of the first companies to co-operate in opening
up a way of living in harmony within nature, to trace an optimum way of
living and to develop an ecological industry, in the UK and Ukraine, in an
efficient and gainful way?

You wrote in your mail of 5 Mar 1998 18:23:54 -0500 :

"The election of Leonid Danylovych Kuchma to the presidency in July 1994
marked a turning point for the Ukraine when Kuchma called for the
privatisation of 8000 state-owned enterprises, agricultural reform, a
reduction in state subsidies, and tax cuts as part of his economic plan."

I explained my theory to a personal friend of Mr. Kuchma. - One of the
guests I invited to this dinner in hotel Dnepropetrovsk, introduced me to
this person. - Mr. Kuchma's friend, like so many, agreed with the logic
of the accounting practise, I propose ; the costs of living with ecological
products should be deducted from taxable income. I could revitalise this
contact to get Mr. Kuchma interested to sustain a special economic zone in
which the management of the costs of living can be tested for its
efficiency to keep nature sound and for its impact on increasing the
efficiency of the economy.

I trust that you are interested to convince the directors of Eureng that it
is vital to you and to your generation and that it is in their interest
that they get involved in introducing the management of the costs of living
in reality. - If you do not succeed, you might become the grandmother of
boys who cannot procreate naturally anymore, because the fertility of their
sperm will have been destroyed by oestrogen. This will be the case in the
year 2050, according to predictions by the United Nations. By then, your
grandsons might have to fight wars to defend drinkable water reserves and
fertile land. - I trust therefore that you will succeed, particularly
since "Eureng Limited is a forward looking organisation".

Nevertheless, if you need my help to convince them that it is inevitable
that the costs of living will be managed to keep nature sound, I am willing
to explain them my theory and my plans to trace an optimum way of living.
In the mean time, I invite them to visit the ZERO web site. I draw their
attention in particular to the section : "Can the government end the
ecological crisis?" I post it to you.

Afterwards, we can continue our discussion to come to an agreement to deal
with the socio-econological crisis effectively.

>We welcome your help and advice to the serious problems of the environment,

I thank you for your welcome. I would be grateful if you also accept my
offer to co-operate.

>and those who have a genuine interest in helping my country, the Ukraine.

This is why I send this mail to the cc. list. I am certain that many of
the addressees are keenly interested to participate in activities of ZERO
markets once they know that they are going to be opened. - To open up a
ZERO market, opens up a market for their goods and services. - I know
that certain of the addressees are interested to launch a human and ethical
development. I trust that they will join in a co-operation, if we come to
an agreement.

I am looking forward to the answer of Eureng's ambassador.

With sincerity and its feelings,

Wim A. de Bruyn
ZERO, association of consumers keeping their integrity with their income
45 rue Alfred Giron
B-1050 Brussels, Belgium
Tel. : **32 (2) 648 56 95
Fax : **32 (2) 648 56 95, when computer is on
e-mail :
ZERO web site :


Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 06:28:38 -0800 (PST)
From: "David A. Kirkpatrick" <>

Gregg -

You probably saw the notice for Recycling Investment Forums.
Our spring schedule has been as follows:

Ted Campbell, SC Recycling Market Development Advisory Council, 803-737-0477

Pat Langan, Nebraska Department of Economic Development, 402-471-3766
Website:, Email:

Mary Ann Remolador, Northeast Recycling Council, 802-254-3636
Website:, Email:

The idea for the forums is to link recycling entrepreneurs with
investors and economic developers. I should note that institutional
venture capital is only one segment of the investment community
we invite (given their minimal role in financing recycling ventures.)
Individual "angel" investors, investment bankers, corporate investors
and other financiers are also invited. Another key benefit of the
forums is helping the business owners to tighten up their business plan
and learn make a presentation suitable for equity investors (through
a presentation rehearsal and training session held prior to each forum.)

The Materials for the Future Foundation is working to organize recycling
investment forums for the West Coast. Contact them at or

Finally, the forums are only one strategy for seeking investment capital.
Clearly, the company should develop a complete business plan, work with
professional advisors to refine the plan, develop a capital-raising strategy,
contact appropriate local capital sources, investigate investment networks,

A document I wrote for the EPA and NRC on this topic has some of these
outlined. It is available on EPA's website -- just link to it from my
website at EPA's JTR site at
also has good links to other recycling financing resources.

David Kirkpatrick

>Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:18:46 -0800
>From: Gregg Foster <>
>I recall that there was a notice some time ago about a venture capital
forum or some other instrument for linking investors to recycling businesses
needing investment, not debt, capital.
>Unfortunately, I seemed to have deleted the message and I need that
information now.
>Could someone point me in the right direction?
David Kirkpatrick
good works for the good earth
Address: Post Office Box 15062
Durham, NC 27704-0062 USA
Voice: 919/220-8065
Fax: 919/220-9720


End of GreenYes Digest V98 #63