greenyes-d Digest V98 #11
Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:24:11 -0500

greenyes-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 11

Today's Topics:
[GreenYes] Request [ Greg Smith <>=
Re: greenyes-d Digest V98 #10 [ Michele Raymond=
< ]
RE: greenyes-d Digest V98 #10 [ "Bette Fishbein"=
<fishbein@informin ]
[GreenYes] ADMIN: Please Read [ Shay Mitchell=
<shay@earthsystems.or ]
[GreenYes] J. Winston Porter on the Bene [ "Bill Sheehan"=
<bill_sheehan@mindsp ]

This is the digest version of the greenyes mailing list.=20
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:02:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Greg Smith <>
To: Grassroots Recycling Network <>
Subject: [GreenYes] Request
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=3DUS-ASCII

Dear SysOp,

I just tried to forward to local activists a message that had come across
via greenyes. Unfortunately, your system would not allow me to forward
the entire message, just a small portion and not the portion I wanted. I
tried several times without success.

What gives?

Greg Smith
|| Internet:

To unsubscribe, send a message to
with the subject unsubscribe. If you should have any problems, please
write to =20

GreenYes is archived on the GrassRoots Recycling Network web site:=20
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:37:52 -0500
From: Michele Raymond <>
Subject: Re: greenyes-d Digest V98 #10
Message-Id: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"

RE: OECD Meeting

If I may point out that the European system has a few faults as well:

1. It has not solved the plastics recycling markets issue -- companies
still use virgin material

2. It is a patchwork, because the countries do not standardize defiinitions
of packaging, etc. and the collection organizations are all different;
systems differ. So if you market in many countries, you need a full time
staff just to fill otu the forms and pay the fees. We estimated it costs
industry about $10 billion per year icluding staff, databases and fees.

Here is a release from my recent workshop. Just FYI -- It is not a
panacea, but it does send a signal to manufacturers.

Europe's Recycling Laws Costing Packagers $10 Billion/year

Chicago - Europe's complex package recycling laws are costing industry
about $10 billion per year in fees, data collection and package tracking
for 15 countries, according to experts who spoke at the first "Take it
Back!" Workshop Nov. 12 in Chicago, organized by Raymond Communications,=
The workshop, "Coping with European Packaging Mandates" was co-sponsored
by E- Tech Products, Inc., Denver.=20
Under takeback laws now on the books in about 28 countries worldwide,
manufacturers must join and pay fees to a collection organization, or get
their own packaging back=20
British Consultant Michael Coe estimated that it takes an average of
$500,000 on up for a larger multi-national a company to set up a package
tracking system and calculate fees in Europe, and another $100,000 per year
to maintain the system.
Indeed, the paperwork can cost more than the collection fees, according to
Victor Bell of Environmental Packaging International, another speaker.
The fees vary widely in each country, and definitions of "packaging" and
"composites" also differ. For example, 1,000 folding cartons with no
coating (or one less than 5%) would be assessed $22.90 in Germany, $1 in
Belgium, and $5.10 in France. A foil/plastic laminate would cost $120 in
Germany, $40 in Belgium, but the same $5.10 in France.

Some Packages to be Banned

Bell also points out that under the existing draft of the "essential
requirements" from Europe's standards organization (CEN) many U.S. packages
will be banned in Europe. For example, blue glass bottles, PVC shrink wrap
and sleeves, cosmetics gift packs, even some software packages and ink jet
cartridges will not pass muster.=20
The rules, to take effect in 2000, will require a written assessment that
the package has been source-reduced, and must be recyclable, reusable or
safely burned, and will not negatively impact on any of the country's
recovery systems. Packaging that cannot be justified on protection, safety,
or marketing grounds will be prohibited.
Not tracking these developments can be a genuine liability, Bell warns.
For example, a software company found that its distributors were not paying
third-party fees in Europe =97 the firm could have been liable for fines,
back fees and even prosecution.
"If your distributors have not asked you for packaging data, then you
should be worried," Bell stressed.
Proceedings are available from Raymond Communications, Inc; College Park
Maryland, publishers of Recycling Laws International. Call 301-345-4237;
Fax 301 345-4768;; E-Mail
Contact: Michele Raymond

I understand some of these EU rules have been influenced by one recycling
organization, which is inclufenced by beverage makers. Beverage makers
1. don't have a large nmber of different products
2. bottle in each country, so if things are stringent it matters less to
them in some cases, I am told. Yes they dont like refillables quotas,
etc.but other mandates do not bother them, while they might be impossible
for someone using PP tubs.

There are two sides to every issue guys.

Any opinions on the speeches at the OECD conference? Did anyone atttend?
What did you think of Linday's address?? Industry liked it -- what did you


Michele Raymond
Recyclign Laws International

At 06:00 AM 12/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>greenyes-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 10
>Today's Topics:
> [GreenYes] recycling education [ ]
> [GreenYes] fabric scraps [ ]
> [GreenYes] Event Waste Reduction/Recycli [ "Tara Blumer" <> ]
> [GreenYes] [Fwd: ECO-COMPASS, 12/14/98-- [ Myra Nissen
<> ]
> [GreenYes] OECD Conference on Producer R [ "Bill Sheehan"
<bill_sheehan@mindsp ]
>This is the digest version of the greenyes mailing list.=20
>If should ever need to unsubscribe from this digest, write=20
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>subject unsubscribe. Address letters to the list to=20
>Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:03:28 EST
>Subject: [GreenYes] recycling education
>Message-ID: <>
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Hello everyone -=20
>I was hoping someone could be of assistance to me - I need some curriculum
>materials/book suggestions for high school science education on recycling
>-specifically the chemistry involved in processing plastic, paper, cans,
>etc. Does anyone know where I might find such materials or information?=20
>Thank you=20
>Nicole Egger
>American Indian Charter School
>To unsubscribe, send a message to
>with the subject unsubscribe. If you should have any problems, please
>write to =20
>GreenYes is archived on the GrassRoots Recycling Network web site:=20
>Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:56:01 EST
>Subject: [GreenYes] fabric scraps
>Message-ID: <>
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Hello again all,
>I was wondering if anyone could suggest where I might take discards of new
>fabric from a clothing manufacturer. I know of SCRAP in San Francisco, but=
>am not sure they will be able to take the amount of scraps available every
>week. Any ideas?
>Nicole Egger
>American Indian Charter School
>Nielsen Construction
>To unsubscribe, send a message to
>with the subject unsubscribe. If you should have any problems, please
>write to =20
>GreenYes is archived on the GrassRoots Recycling Network web site:=20
>Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:14:11 -0600
>From: "Tara Blumer" <>
>Subject: [GreenYes] Event Waste Reduction/Recycling
>Message-Id: <>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII
>Content-Disposition: inline
>Hello! I am in the process of gathering information on waste reduction,
composting and recycling at special events like festivals, fairs,
conferences, athletic events, etc. Has anyone put together a "how to"
guide on this topic or is anyone willing to share information on their
successes or failures? All replies will be appreciated.
>For anyone who is interested, the Saint Paul Neighborhood Energy
Consortium (NEC) in Minnesota is a major sponsor and organizer of the Saint
Paul Classic Bike Tour, which attracts 5,000 riders annually. In an effort
to reduce the amount of waste disposed of at this event, the NEC provides a
staffed trash/recycling area at each of the six rest stops along the bike
route. Riders sort their waste into recycling, compost or trash
receptacles. This is a great opportunity to educate participants about
waste reduction, composting and recycling by having them sort their waste
into the correct container. For the past two years, approximately 5% of
the waste was trash. The rest was composted or recycled. For more
information you can contact Tara Blumer ( or Hatti Koth
( at the NEC.
>Happy Holidays!
>Tara Blumer
>Multifamily Recycling Coordinator
>Saint Paul Neighborhood Energy Consortium
>475 North Cleveland Avenue, #100
>Saint Paul, MN 55104
>phone:(651) 644-7678
>fax:(651) 649-3109
>To unsubscribe, send a message to
>with the subject unsubscribe. If you should have any problems, please
>write to =20
>GreenYes is archived on the GrassRoots Recycling Network web site:=20
>Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:13:25 -0800
>From: Myra Nissen <>
>To: greenyes <>
>Subject: [GreenYes] [Fwd: ECO-COMPASS, 12/14/98--Environmental Careers in the
21st Century]
>Message-ID: <>
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>Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:04:55 -0500
>From: Island Press <>
>Message-Id: <l03020905b29b2dcdbd6b@[]>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Precedence: bulk
>Subject: ECO-COMPASS, 12/14/98--Environmental Careers in the 21st Century
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
>As we approach the millennium, the prospects for career development=20
>within the environmental field have never looked brighter. Between 1970=20
>and 1993, the number of people employed within the environmental and=20
>conservation sectors increased from 230,000 to nearly 2.5 million, and=20
>annual expenditures for environmental protection within the U.S. rose from=
>$32 billion to $200 billion.
>According to the Environmental Careers Organization (ECO), this dramatic=20
>growth has been fueled by such drivers as:=20
>New laws and regulations, which:=20
> - create compliance responsibilities and government employment;=20
> - result in the purchase and management of public land;=20
> - require the distribution of grants and loans; and=20
> - create an industry of advocates and analysts who monitor these laws=
> and educate the public.
>Economics and the marketplace, which increasingly reward or create=20
>incentives for business practices that protect the environment.
>Environmental values, as evidenced by the increased popularity, budgetary=
>capacity, and membership of organizations related to conservation and the=
>environment, which received over $4 billion in charitable contributions in=
>Technology, which is altering the job market by eliminating the need for=20
>certain types of jobs while creating new opportunities for those who are=20
>skilled in both using and creating new technologies.
>These trends and their implications for the job market are examined in=20
>a new volume from ECO entitled The Complete Guide to Environmental=20
>Careers in the 21st Century, a completely revised and updated edition of=20
>what has become the standard reference on the subject. The book presents=20
>information on career opportunities in such fields as education and=20
>communications, energy management and conservation, fisheries and=20
>wildlife management, forestry, and land and water conservation, among
>You can visit Eco-Compass at for an enhanced
>version of this feature, including links to some of the best Websites on
>environmental careers, as well as information on the book and related
>titles from Island Press.=20
>Please forward this message to anyone who might find it usefull.
>To subscribe to Eco-Compass send an e-mail message to:=20
>Leave the subject line blank, in the body of the message, type:=20
>subscribe islandpress-l
>To unsubscribe to Eco-Compass send an e-mail message to:=20
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>Eco-Compass by Island Press
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>1 800 828 1302
>Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:41:38 -0500
>From: "Bill Sheehan" <>
>To: "GreenYes" <>
>Subject: [GreenYes] OECD Conference on Producer Responsibility
>Message-ID: <00d601be27f2$b6b77d80$6af245cf@desktop>
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>[From Californians Against Waste - Recycling Advocate, December 14, ]
>OECD Conference on Producer Responsibility
>(Organization for Economic Cooperation & Development =3D an organization of
>about two dozen 'developed' nations, including U.S.))
>On Dec. 1-3, the USEPA hosted an international workshop on Producer
>Responsibility. The workshop was part of the OECD's efforts to prepare a
>guidance document to countries considering Extended Producer Responsibility
>(EPR) policies.
>The workshop was an excellent opportunity to get a broad understanding of
>the EPR efforts going on throughout the world. The workshop covered a
>range of approaches ranging from voluntary to mandatory and including both
>financial (packaging fees) and programmatic (recovery rates) components.
>Clearly, Europe has been the leader in this area. The European Union has
>established standardized goals for packaging recovery, which providing
>flexibility to nations to determine the favored mechanisms for meeting
>those goals.
>These efforts where driven in part by Germany adopting its Packaging
>Ordinance which requires manufacturers to meet certain collection and
>recovery requirements or face the requirement to have stores accept
>packaging back in their stores. German industries created the Dualles
>System which established a collection system entirely separate from the
>municipal collection system funded through fees for use of the German Green
>Dot. Despite some major problems during startup, the system has recovered
>and is tremendously successful in recovering packaging.
>To unsubscribe, send a message to
>with the subject unsubscribe. If you should have any problems, please
>write to =20
>GreenYes is archived on the GrassRoots Recycling Network web site:=20
Michele Raymond
Recycling Laws International/ State Recycling Laws Update
5111 Berwyn Rd. Ste 115 College Park, MD 20740)
301/345-4237 Fax 345-4768
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:46:31 -0500
From: "Bette Fishbein" <>
To: <>
Subject: RE: greenyes-d Digest V98 #10
Message-ID: <000e01be27ee$442dbb20$>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am getting the Green Yes bulletins in the form of attachments. This makes
it very difficult to read. In the past I received Green Yes in the form of
text. Can you revert to the old system? If not let me know how to handle
this. It takes far too long to access attachments.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> []
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 6:00 AM
> To:
> Subject: greenyes-d Digest V98 #10
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:36:35 -0500
From: Shay Mitchell <>
Subject: [GreenYes] ADMIN: Please Read
Message-Id: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"


Hi. Just wanted to remind everyone that if you should=20
ever have any problem whatsoever with the greenyes
mailing list to write to me at or
Bill Sheehan at Please do not write=20
to the entire list. We will be more than happy to work
with you to solve whatever problem you are having. =20

Take care and Happy Holidays!

Shay Mitchell
<> =20

To unsubscribe, send a message to
with the subject unsubscribe. If you should have any problems, please
write to =20

GreenYes is archived on the GrassRoots Recycling Network web site:=20
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:34:16 -0500
From: "Bill Sheehan" <>
To: "GreenYes" <>
Subject: [GreenYes] J. Winston Porter on the Benefits of Disposables
Message-ID: <005e01be2843$5f2f2e40$683456d1@desktop>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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[Forwarded from Tom Watson, Waste Prevention Forum, 12/11/98]+=20

A press release from the Foodservice and Packaging Institute (FPI),
forwarded by Jerry Powell, notes that FPI has just released a new video
called "Doilies Make the Difference." The video "promotes the many benefits
and uses of paper doilies in restaurants, hotels, bars and meeting rooms,
and is aimed at chefs and foodservice managers." The video is available
free by calling FPI at (703) 527-7505. You can also check out the Doilies
page on FPI's website at:

FPI, based in Arlington, VA, is "the material-neutral trade association for
manufacturers, suppliers and distributors of foodservice disposable
products, as well as others associated with the industry." Other material
in the FPI website might also be interesting to waste prevention advocates.

For example, the website describes a report with these conclusions:
-- Disposable packaging is usually more hygienic than reusable packaging.=20
-- Disposable packaging, due to the avoidance of washing, is almost always
better from water-use and wastewater-production aspects.=20
-- Reusable packaging may be better from solid-waste, air-pollution and
energy-usage standpoints, but only if the item is reused several hundred

That report is described at: The FPI
home page is at:


>From Bruce Nordman, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, Berkeley, CA:

Regarding the Foodservice and Packaging Institute (FPI) report comparing
single-use and reusable food service products (mentioned in a 12/11/98
posting), there is certainly good reason to view their report with caution.

I have no direct experience with studying food service alternatives. I have
however studied the relative impact of diaper choices extensively and there
may be significant parallels, particularly in that the single-use industry
is well financed and organized, the reusables industry is neither, and
energy for washing/drying is a significant part of the analysis.

>From the FPI web site, I see that one of the authors of the report is J.
Winston Porter, who I have always heard of in the context of advocacy rather
than unbiased scientific analysis; I am unfamiliar with the other author. A
study conducted by a neutral organization would seem to have more

In the case of diapers, the studies presented in the press in the early '90s
were presented as good science, but were clearly not. There were flaws in
both methodology and in the data used which made them (I would argue) worse
than useless. The goal seemed to be to confuse people and convince them
that there were no good choices available to concerned people, where as in
reality there are many such choices available. A key issue is that the ways
that reusables are used and washed is not fixed, but is highly variable and
affirmatively changeable.

While I am strongly opinionated myself, as a scientist I have to distinguish
between that and what I see good scientific evidence for. I suspect that
the food service question would be well served by good science but that for
the near term it won't.

I'm not taking a stand on the food service issue, but would encourage anyone
with the time and inclination to get the FPI report, study it closely, and
try to confirm or challenge its methods and assumptions.


Note: For a summary of the report, and information on how to get a copy of
it, see the FPI website at: =20

To unsubscribe, send a message to
with the subject unsubscribe. If you should have any problems, please
write to =20

GreenYes is archived on the GrassRoots Recycling Network web site:=20